Home Forums Supernatural Fan Wiki Community Let’s all talk about Despair (S15 E18)

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    • #3194 Reply

      We are REALLY getting down to it now. The last 3 episodes. I can’t quite believe we are that close to the end. I am going to miss this so much!!!!

      It seems that this week’s episode is a direct continuation of last week – as if it were one 2-hour episode. Promo photos show Jack, Cas, Billie, and (AU?) Charlie. I wonder what will happen to Jack? I remember that this episode, the last one they filmed (and directed by RSJ!) before the pandemic shutdown, was said to be a very emotional one.

      I fear it will be the end of Cas. That he’ll sacrifice himself for Jack, or for Sam and Dean. I am not sure how this will go after watching last week. I don’t see Chuck/Amara (now one being) in these promo photos, but he has to be in this one, doesn’t he?

      The title of this one isn’t very encouraging!

      I am very curious to see how things will be resolved when last we saw Chuck, he was irate with them all in the bunker hallway. Rob Benedict WAS up in Vancouver filming episode 19 after the long covid break, so it seems that the Chuck issue will not quite be totally resolved in this one. They’ll save that for the penultimate.

      (Nobody says “penultimate”.)

    • #3254 Reply
      kate38
      Guest

      Well, I’m heartbroken. But I knew I would be. I’ll be brief because I really don’t feel like talking. I like that they gave Cas such a noble send off. And Misha knocked it out of the park, as I knew he would. It makes perfect sense that his true happiness is acknowledging his admiration for Dean. (side note – the destiel people will have a hoot-nanny with this scene for all eternity).

      I liked the “Kim Manor” Easter egg. That was good.

      It felt cheap to use such an obvious device stolen directly from an Avengers movie. I’ve put up a fight, but I’ve finally lost faith in these writers. I’ve tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, but that was just lame and lazy. On a bright note – Eileen is gone. Down side, we’re still stuck with Jack. He seems to have a new power he doesn’t understand, though. Maybe that will finally make him interesting.

      kate

    • #3255 Reply

      Cas’ speech to Dean – beautiful. This episode was originally called The Truth and they should have left it that way. Cas told Dean exactly what we’ve always known about him – about who he really is – about why we all love him. And Cas’ perfect moment of happiness was telling Dean that truth? I wish Dean had had more reaction. Such an abrupt end to our Cas though!!!

      But the rest of this episode – What. The. Hell?!?!?! Slow. Weird. Disjointed. Not good.

    • #3256 Reply

      Kate – I’ve never seen an Avengers movie. What’d they steal?

    • #3257 Reply
      kate38
      Guest

      “Cas’ speech to Dean – beautiful. This episode was originally called The Truth and they should have left it that way. Cas told Dean exactly what we’ve always known about him – about who he really is – about why we all love him. And Cas’ perfect moment of happiness was telling Dean that truth? I wish Dean had had more reaction. Such an abrupt end to our Cas though!!!”

      Yes, that scene was beautiful. Acknowledging his admiration for Dean – recognition that Dean would NEVER realize or admit on his own — was very moving. It makes sense that Castiel’s true happiness is sharing that part of his “soul” with his best friend. I’m very sad Cas is gone (I hope we’ll at least see a cameo later to let us know he’s okay), but I respect the sendoff he was given. To your point, it felt like Dean did have some lines that maybe got edited out? There were a few times the camera cut to him and I expected more than his stunned expression. Not that his stunned expression and man tears weren’t amazing acting, but there were a few times I expected more.

      “But the rest of this episode – What. The. Hell?!?!?! Slow. Weird. Disjointed. Not good.”
      Yes! The rest of the episode was weird and clunky.

    • #3258 Reply

      And we saw the first Walker ad! Sam was narrating it!!!

    • #3259 Reply

      It’s cheap to try to use AU characters to get to us. Now it sounds like the original plan was to have them somehow save everyone or join them in the other side – but covid nixed that so I have more hope for a pared-down version.

    • #3260 Reply
      kate38
      Guest

      “Kate – I’ve never seen an Avengers movie. What’d they steal?”

      Hey, JBB —
      I’m not all that familiar with them either (hubby drags me to them sometimes), but there’s one evil character who snapped his fingers and suddenly made people all over the world disappear in puffs of smoke, like the characters did in this episode. It was sort of like a rapture — people who were standing right next to you were suddenly just gone.
      In the movie, some of the main superheroes also disappeared. I was kinda hoping Jack would vaporize, but he didn’t LOL!

      I’m sure the next episode will reverse most if not all of the disappearances. That’s what happened in the movie, anyway.

      It’s just SOOOOO annoying because these writers are obviously catering to adolescent destiel-ers who were likely overjoyed by what we saw tonight.

      kate

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by kate38.
    • #3264 Reply

      I knew you would not be happy that there may only be 3 people left on earth and Jack is one of them. I really didn’t like everything they did with Jack here. The big plan fizzled – he detonates but is preserved by the Empty just…NO!

      • #3267 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “I knew you would not be happy that there may only be 3 people left on earth and Jack is one of them. I really didn’t like everything they did with Jack here. The big plan fizzled – he detonates but is preserved by the Empty just…NO!”

        Right!?!?!? I knew their master plan would be derailed, but this was a silly way to derail it. So, we’re supposed to believe that Chuck just kills Jack (again) and happily leaves the bunker to go do his evil, rapture snap thing? Chuck must have known about Billie’s involvement and what she is capable of. It just didn’t make sense to me.

        And what happened to the AU Winchesters? I guess they got rapture-snapped, too?

        kate

    • #3265 Reply

      They will be overjoyed for sure. I was there for everything but the I love you.

    • #3266 Reply

      I cannot wait for our rewatch – to be back in the early seasons.

      • #3268 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “I cannot wait for our rewatch – to be back in the early seasons.”

        Yes! Definitely!! Season 15 is not making me very happy right now. I didn’t have high hopes going in, but gosh! I didn’t think it would suck THIS bad.

    • #3269 Reply

      I agree. It was one of the worst premieres ever (ghosts running around the subdivision in broad daylight and Kevin for no good reason) and I just hope that God and Michael can save episode 19. 20 – I have NO idea what that will be.

    • #3270 Reply
      kate38
      Keymaster

      If Cas had to die anyway, I’m glad he died saving Dean and not Jack. Dean is worthy of that sacrifice. Jack isn’t (IMO).

    • #3271 Reply

      He would have died for Jack, but he died saving someone very important to him and to us.

      • #3272 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “He would have died for Jack, but he died saving someone very important to him and to us.”

        We’re in agreement. I’m sure Cas would have willingly died for Jack. I just don’t think Jack is worthy. But yes, Cas died for someone very important to him and to all of us. Cas was also 100% right when he said Dean is the most loving and most self-sacrificing person there is. Dean needed to hear that.

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by kate38.
    • #3273 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      WOW…..that was….BAD!

      SIGH.

      I am in complete agreement with you guys. HEY, at least THAT is good, right?

      Misha was LOVELY in this episode!! All scenes with him were highly worth watching and his deeply heartfelt last scene with Dean was exactly what I had hoped for for the character if he had to go!!! I also thought we saw some of MISHA bleeding through Cas’ performance, the slightly higher voice, the deep emotion, which was very meta.

      YES, kate38, Destiel people will forever feel vindicated by this…..sorry, but….I could’ve done without that!!! They tend to be quite rabid about their preference in shipping and I STILL don’t see it as romantic. It’s BROTHER-FRIEND love to me between them, that’s it. But, whatever. Maybe the writers meant this as a concession for fans? I don’t know.

      But aside from that, I am glad that Cas got a worthy send off and I quite liked the way he figured out what true happiness is because I agree wholeheartedly that it’s in the giving not the taking. And I also loved that he told Dean what we all knew for 15 years – that Dean is the most deeply caring and loving person on this earth.

      OTHER than that……I found the episode sadly anticlimactic and at the same time artificially dramatic.

      I would have liked a little more than (beautiful, heart-breaking) tears from Dean in that last scene with Cas, but I can accept that Dean was stunned and out of ideas. Still they could’ve given him a couple of lines (or shouldn’t have cut them if they were there)

      I thought that the bloody handprint on Dean’s shoulder when Cas tossed him out of the way was unnecessary! Yes, we all know that Cas saved Dean initially from hell, we have not forgotten! That was a little too on the nose for me and not logical, because where is the blood coming from??

      I don’t buy that Billie all of a sudden has such strong feelings against all “out of order” events and especially against Dean. That comes kinda out of nowhere for me and makes her seem small and weak to me. I love Lisa Berry, but the original DEATH was so great because he DIDN’T really care, because humanity was too beneath him. Having Billie Death take it all so personally is odd!

      I am mostly mad at the lame ruse to try and make of us think that Billie was starting to wipe the board clean of people who had been saved or resurrected and then turn the table last moment and make that CHUCK’S doing, because I truly hated that they killed Charlie AGAIN and Eileen AGAIN and Bobby AGAIN….AND then DARED to also kill Donna???
      That was SO horribly useless and immensely irritating that I couldn’t even find it sad or emotionally taxing. It was just gratuitous drama for no good purpose!

      IF Sam and Dean die at the end I really wanted some of the others (like Donna, Bobby and Charlie) to still be alive and carry on the Winchester’s memory. And if Sam and Dean don’t die than there is literally almost no one left on earth who they care about.
      THAT is too dark even for our show.

      ALSO I have a big problem with Dean and Sam splitting up there in the middle of the episode ESPECIALLY as they suspect that either one of them could disappear at any moment. I don’t see that happening!!
      And I LOOOOOVE Bro hugs!!! I do!!! But that one was a total waste for me and seemed to be put there just because the writers thought there needed to be one for the fans. There wasn’t enough feeling behind it. I never thought I would ever say that. UGH.

      I also had hoped that there would be more of an explanation about last week’s moment of Dean pulling the gun on Sam!!! OK, they talked and Dean apologized, but he still said that he needed Chuck dead and couldn’t snap out of it, which sounds to me too much like it was DEAN who was out of control of his own actions because of his hate for Chuck in that moment and not because Chuck was controlling his story. IF that is what the writers intended….they are CRAZY! Dean would never ever pull a gun on Sam and cock it in blind rage. That is just not him. (Especially if the writers argue in the next episode that Dean is the most caring person in the world….). Anyhow, I will keep imagining that it was Chuck’s doing….just to make it palatable to me.

      Lastly, I know Dean was so devastated at the end of the episode, but it made me scream at the TV that he would ignore a call from Sam right there!!!! He must realize that not answering might make Sam think he disappeared!!! With everything going on, I NEED the Winchesters to be on the same page and focused on each other here at the end, NOT behaving like they have all the time in the world or don’t care!

      Questions:
      Now that Billie is dead or dying…..who will be the next Death? Could it be Cas? I know he is not a reaper, but he is an angel and didn’t we find out that reapers are angels?
      (My husband thinks DEAN should be the next Death. HA! I told him he cares too much, that’ll never work)

      Billie said that Jack is still useful. For what? He has no powers. Could HE become the next Death? He is half (arch)angel afterall…..and he made that plant in the silo die by touching it and seemed surprised about it.

      I am guessing they will still need a “Death” in order to defeat Chuck? Or at least to reap him.

      What a disappointment for the second to last episode of the mythological arc in the last season……it left me feeling empty and underappreciated as a fan.

      It hurts my heart to say it, but I expected soooo much more.

      PNP

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PigNaPoke.
      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PigNaPoke.
      • #3278 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “I thought that the bloody handprint on Dean’s shoulder when Cas tossed him out of the way was unnecessary! Yes, we all know that Cas saved Dean initially from hell, we have not forgotten! That was a little too on the nose for me and not logical, because where is the blood coming from??”

        I’m pretty sure Cas’ hand was bleeding because of the blood sigil he drew on the door to protect them from Billie. I could’ve done without the hand print, but I got it and it didn’t bother me that much.

      • #3283 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “I am mostly mad at the lame ruse to try and make of us think that Billie was starting to wipe the board clean of people who had been saved or resurrected and then turn the table last moment and make that CHUCK’S doing, because I truly hated that they killed Charlie AGAIN and Eileen AGAIN and Bobby AGAIN….AND then DARED to also kill Donna???
        That was SO horribly useless and immensely irritating that I couldn’t even find it sad or emotionally taxing. It was just gratuitous drama for no good purpose!”

        It was a slaughterhouse tonight, wasn’t it? I think earlier this season, Dabb said “If you liked GOT, brace yourself” or something along those lines. I never watched GOT, but I’ve heard people say that a bunch of important characters died near the end.

        I personally think these (LAZY, LAZY) writers are stealing from the Avengers and GOT. If that’s true, didn’t many of the people who got vaporized in Avengers return? So, I think the Boys are gonna make a deal with Chuck. The brothers will agree to die if Chuck will agree to bring everybody else back — something like that. At this point, I’m not sure I even care anymore. Maybe I’m just numb because of Cas…sigh…

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by kate38.
    • #3277 Reply

      It hurts me to say it, but if the story arc is this played out – where the loss or saving of all humanity is so not compelling, maybe it was right to call it. I still hold out hope for the last two. Glad I wasn’t crazy in my reaction to this one.

    • #3279 Reply

      It IS kind of sweet that those who love Cas and Dean/Cas seem to be so happy about Cas’ speech that they are not sad about his end and I’m glad they aren’t destroyed.

    • #3280 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      “I’m not all that familiar with them either (hubby drags me to them sometimes), but there’s one evil character who snapped his fingers and suddenly made people all over the world disappear in puffs of smoke, like the characters did in this episode. It was sort of like a rapture — people who were standing right next to you were suddenly just gone.
      In the movie, some of the main superheroes also disappeared. I was kinda hoping Jack would vaporize, but he didn’t LOL!”

      HEY GUYS!
      OK – I hate to disagree with you, but that was THANOS, the big “bad” in the Avengers movies BUT I don’t see it as a good parallel! (SORRY, prepare to be geeked!)
      For one, THANOS was doing it because he wanted to SAVE an overpopulated and doomed to die universe and therefore “culled” 50% of the population to make room for the rest to live. He actually thought he did the Universe a favor and he wasn’t choosing who would die and who would live. It was a completely random 50% of the inhabitant of the world.
      CHUCK does it out of boredom and spite!

      Second, THANOS has to sacrifice his own daughter’s live to gather enough strength to make this happen and (in his view) save the world.
      CHUCK didn’t sacrifice anything – well maybe his sister, but he didn’t seem at all broken up about that.

      SO, although I can see the pure visual parallel, I don’t see it as a good story comparison. If the writers meant it as such…they failed 100%

      This episode “flaking away” was just odd! Too random to be meant as lesson for the Winchesters and too specific to mean that he doesn’t care.

      PNP

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PigNaPoke.
    • #3282 Reply

      Hey, Cas used DEAN’S KNIFE to cut his hand for the singular. Dean’s Kershaw knife will be there to the end!!!!

    • #3284 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      “I’m pretty sure Cas’ hand was bleeding because of the blood sigil he drew on the door to protect them from Billie. I could’ve done without the hand print, but I got it and it didn’t bother me that much.”

      GOOD POINT, kate38!!! Thanks! Still, too much for me. It seemed to forced.

      PNP

    • #3286 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      YESSSSS, JBB!!!

      KNIFE SIGHTING!!!!!!

      I saw that, too!!

      PNP

    • #3287 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      I am just disappointed that they pulled Billie in as the additional adversary so close to the end. WHY!? They are trying to outsmart GOD for heck’s sake….isn’t that big enough to deal with???

      I would have liked it better to deal with the “Amuck” situation and keep Billie on the neutral or ally side.

      It just seems like they are trying too hard to make it “mega” big for he end.

      UGH

      PNP

    • #3288 Reply

      My device won’t let me spell
      s i g i l without autocorrecting!

    • #3289 Reply

      Yes! Leave Billie and the stupid Empty out of it! God and Amara are plenty to deal with!!!! This side story is not an interesting twist! It’s distracting from what could be amazing!

      • #3293 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “Yes! Leave Billie and the stupid Empty out of it! God and Amara are plenty to deal with!!!! This side story is not an interesting twist! It’s distracting from what could be amazing!”

        I agree. In their attempt to make the plot complicated and interesting enough to keep us guessing, they’ve made it too convoluted: “Chuck is trying to make us kill each other. Nope – scratch that. We have to kill Chuck with this leviathan blossom thingy before he destroys other worlds. Nope — No can do. It’ll cause monster apocalypse. Okay then, Jack is back and he’s gonna kill Chuck? Wait — no, Jack turns himself into a bomb. Good thing Billie is on our side. But wait — no she isn’t. Billie wants to be god, so she’s gonna kill us. Nope — she’s pissed and just wants to kill Dean. Oops — wrong again. Billie is angry now and is killing all our friends? Nope — it’s Chuck again, and he’s killing everybody on the planet except for you three and a really cute dog.” Sigh…

        I think by default the final episodes will have to be simpler just because there’s nobody else left to fight or kill.

    • #3290 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      You know….I ALSO want our heroes to end their 15 season run HERORIC!!!! At the moment they are too divided, too broken, too distraught, too small….COME ON!!!

      I will rewatch it, but I think I will wait until the next episode it through and then watch the last three (17, 18 and 19) together in one go. Maybe it makes more sense then.

      Clinging to the last vestiges of hope here…..

      Don’t want to think about it now.

      PNP

    • #3291 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Hey Kate38, I am VERY SORRY you are hurting for Cas!!!!!!

      But at least he had a worth AND happy end!!

      I am not so sure we’ll get this for the Boys!! And you KNOW I have clung on to positive thinking til the end. I think I am finally running on empty.

      PNP

      • #3292 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “Hey Kate38, I am VERY SORRY you are hurting for Cas!!!!!!

        But at least he had a worth AND happy end!!

        I am not so sure we’ll get this for the Boys!! And you KNOW I have clung on to positive thinking til the end. I think I am finally running on empty.

        PNP”

        Thanks for the love, PNP.

        Yes, Cas had a very appropriate and oddly “happy” ending. But I find myself wondering if it’s truly permanent.
        I’m okay if that sounds delusional, but it’s not like the Empty is still “that place nobody returns from” any longer. It hasn’t been that for a long time. Cas and Billie got sucked in at the same time, so anything is possible. Could Cas make a deal with Death? And I’m guessing we’re supposed to forget about that scene (Destiny’s Child) when Cas agreed to help Ruby escape the Empty in exchange for information about the Occultum? Can they both escape somehow? I don’t know — maybe I’m in denial, but I just get the feeling this isn’t the end of Cas.

    • #3295 Reply

      I have never been on board with The Empty but it would have been scarier if you truly couldn’t escape. And Jack was there and back in one episode last night! So what’s the threat?!

      Also, the fans who see Cas’ love for Dean as romantic seem very happy that he got to get his feelings out in the open. But even if you see it that way, this great love is unrequited and that’s sad and not a great message in my mind. Say your truth just before you die/disappear when nothing more can be done?

      And I too, like some others on Twitter, was upset Dean didn’t answer Sam’s call. I guess the implication was that he was too devastated over Cas, but it’s SAM in a very dire situation out there with Jack with only plans that might work (and didn’t). Dean has always put Sam first, even ahead of his own feelings. He would have answered.

      In some weird way were the writers trying to say they’ve both lost their love interests now????

      • #3300 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “I have never been on board with The Empty but it would have been scarier if you truly couldn’t escape. And Jack was there and back in one episode last night! So what’s the threat?!”

        I agree with most of this! The Empty has become more of a revolving door than a place to be feared. And the Shadow (who was given a name by Naomi, or Dumah – I can’t recall, but everybody seems to have forgotten that name anyway, so whatever…) has become a power tool to be manipulated when it’s convenient. Billie “uses” the Empty to save/heal Jack, and later in the same episode, Castiel “uses” the Empty to save Dean from Billie.

        The first time Cas landed in the Empty, he talked and annoyed his way out. And later he popped in for a visit to talk to Ruby. Who, by the way, is expecting Cas to help her escape. Sigh…

        The more we learn about the Empty, the more irrelevant it becomes.

    • #3296 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      I posted a comment regarding the Avengers last night, but it doesn’t show!!! Could you have a look and see if you find it?!

      The short of it was that I don’t see the parallel at all other than the fact that a powerful being destroyed the universe and the visual effect of how it was done.

      In the Avengers the big bad was Thanos. But he did what he did because he wanted to SAVE the Universe. He felt that it was overpopulated and wealth unfairly distributed so his solution was to cull 50% of all life to give the other 50% a fair chance at rebuilding.
      Yes, INSANE, but it came from a place of good intention.
      Chuck just wants to destroy Legoland because his creation bores him.

      Also, Thanos had to sacrifice his own daughter to gather the necessary strength (in form of an Infinity stone) to set his plan in motion.
      Chuck isn’t doing that either….no sacrifice, just petulance.

      And Thanos’ 50/50 solution was totally random, he had no power to decide who stayed and who went whereas Chuck seems very directional in his actions to who disappears first.

      And on the GOT comparison….yes, tons of main characters died during the run of the show and often surprisingly so or at a completely unexpected time, but it never felt to me that it was done purely to shock or piss off the fans. It was more to keep the story grounded in a reality of ANYONE can die here….and no one comes back.

      So, I don’t see the parallels.

      PNP

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PigNaPoke.
      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by PigNaPoke.
      • #3308 Reply
        admin
        Keymaster

        I did find it. Sorry I missed that one. I’ve been very good about checking the spam lately. It is posted above.

        Good point about Thanos. Personally, I thought they were leaning more toward a DC “Crisis on Infinite Earths” type arch. Turns out I got the wrong universe! Not sure why the Marvel scenario is more compelling, but Thanos is far more compelling a villain than Chuck. This already looks like a very weak imitation, but it’s hard for anything to compete with The Avengers with the budget they’ve got! This choice is a big risk.

    • #3298 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      And speaking of parallels:
      I think they tried WAY too hard to beat us over the head last night how both Sam and Dean lost a very important person in their lives!!!

      I for one didn’t mind the Sam/Eileen connection as I thought it was a good pairing that could actually work in their world, BUT I think it came too late in the show. At this time it only distracts from what I wanted to see in the ens of our show – FOCUS on Sam and Dean.

      And to set Eileen’s disappearance and Sam’s consequent sadness over that against the loss of CAS diminished that latter one for me a little.

      Castiel has been their ally, friend, frenemy, support, brother with all the good and bad that comes with for TWELVE years!!!! He is important to BOTH brothers. His loss will devastate both of them. It should have stood on his own.

      I didn’t want a parallel to a love interest on Sam’s side here.

      Although I loved Jared’s work and lines in that scene where he finds out she’s gone.

      • #3301 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “Castiel has been their ally, friend, frenemy, support, brother with all the good and bad that comes with for TWELVE years!!!! He is important to BOTH brothers. His loss will devastate both of them. It should have stood on his own.

        I didn’t want a parallel to a love interest on Sam’s side here.”

        I agree. I’ve never been on board with Sam-Eileen — it has always felt forced and clunky to me. But to resurrect her just so Sam can develop feelings for her and then lose her feels cheap to me.

        And although get why they juxtaposed Sam’s loss, Charlie’s loss, and Dean’s loss the way they did, it felt heavy handed.

    • #3302 Reply
      kate38
      Keymaster

      These next two episodes will be the ones that were filmed after the pandemic shut down. I wonder if the differences will be obvious. It looks like the next episode will start with most of the world’s population being gone. I guess that’s one way to film without having to use a lot of extras 🙂

      When conventions are up and running again, I hope somebody asks what the original (pre-pandemic) ending was supposed to be, and what the changes were.

      Speaking of the ending, I wonder if that Castiel scene is one of the things Jensen initially objected to when he learned what events would happen at the end of the series. (i.e. Before he was hauled into the principal’s office and told to get on board).

    • #3305 Reply

      Yes Kate! The more we learn about The Empty, the more irrelevant it becomes. Also loved your summary of the misdirectios for this season – so many it makes my head spin and totally annoys me! You nailed it!

      PNaP – I also wondered if that was one of Jensen’s objections. I don’t think he’d be all about the fan service!

    • #3310 Reply
      Shannon
      Guest

      Hey! I think part of Dean’s stillness may have been discomfort. It was an awkward scene. Poised at the brink of death, Castiel has just informed Dean of a deal that may save them…him. Then launches into a seemingly irrelevant monologue about Dean’s humanity.Had I not known about the nature of the deal, i wouldn’t have understood what Castiel was saying or why he is saying it, now.

      • #3312 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “Hey! I think part of Dean’s stillness may have been discomfort. It was an awkward scene. Poised at the brink of death, Castiel has just informed Dean of a deal that may save them…him. Then launches into a seemingly irrelevant monologue about Dean’s humanity.Had I not known about the nature of the deal, i wouldn’t have understood what Castiel was saying or why he is saying it, now.”

        Hey, Shannon!
        Welcome to our fanwiki!!! It’s always a thrill to have someone new join our conversations. I hope you like it here 🙂

        You make some excellent points about Dean and Cas in that scene. Dean must have felt completely confused and blindsided by that whole thing. You’re right that Dean had no idea about Castiel’s deal until that very second. And in the seconds leading up to that announcement, Dean was probably trying to figure out why Cas was saying the things he was saying. His only response was “What are you talking about, Man?” He was clearly CLUELESS about where Cas was going (which shoots the whole Destiel thing in the foot — even if I believed in it, which I don’t). The fans were wondering if the pronouncements were romantic or not, and I suspect maybe Dean was, too. Then, before he has a moment to sort out anything — BAM! — it’s all over and Cas is gone. Dean had plenty of reason to be confused and fractured at that moment.

        Here’s the question of the day — do you think he would’ve answered the phone right away?

        Welcome!
        kate

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by kate38.
        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by kate38.
        • #3324 Reply
          Shannon
          Guest

          Hey! Of course Dean would have answered the phone right away. I’m somewhat non-plussed by many of the self-absorbed ways Dean is being posed of late. The World is act risk. Belay the need to pull of gun on Sam or grieve over Castiel and answer the damn phone. I think this episode was largely focused on Castiel’s departure. Therefore, everything is focused on that, as well as Cas’ sentiments. Ergo, time stops while Dean suffers a lost friend. I’m taking my time going around the barn here, sorry. Ot would seem that the writers believe that now cannon unrequited love from both Berens&Misha is far more important than answering the phone while people are disappearing. They cannot juggle two ideas at the same time. Unrequited love? No. What Castiel has wanted for ages in to be human. He “prefers humans to angels.” But through Dean he vicariously experienced what it is to be human. And with that he can express the ultimate human emotion. To love.
          Now. Answer the damn phone Dean.

    • #3376 Reply

      Shannon – hello!

      YES! To me, Cas learned from Dean what it is to be human and that DEAN is an exceptional human being, devoted to and self-sacrificing for those he loves. Watching Dean, Cas learned what love is through the way Dean shows HIS love for other people. I just do not see this as a romantic declaration (though both Misha and Robert Berens have said they saw it that way). I see it as kind of a revelation before his (Cas’) end. A revelation that maybe makes Cas feel that he learned what he set out to learn and so therefore accomplished what he most wanted to accomplish. THAT is lovely and that would have been a great way for Cas to go out! Telling Dean all the things Dean needs to hear about himself, why he’s truly an exceptionally good person, and then shoving Dean out of the way, thereby saving him, so Cas could sacrifice himself for the human who taught him the good parts of humanity. Done! Lovely! Why did it have to be more??? And I have to say that Cas acting THAT emotional, to me, was all Misha; it’s like Cas had already left the building. It felt very out of character for me. If Cas has delivered those same lines in character, it would have been MUCH more impactful for me.

      Now, answer the damn phone, Dean (I second that!).

      • #3384 Reply
        Shannon
        Guest

        Hi!
        Yes, it would seem all the profound themes of humanity got pushed aside for fan service. So disappointing. I found the acting obvious and distracting. Of course, the actor hasn’t had much to do but fret over Jack, for the last few years. His acting has been limited to redundant lines about Jack’s goodness. And his facial expressions are largely eye rolling and pursed lips. Getting an emotional monologue and a death scene overloaded Misha’s. I am so glad he is dead. I used to love Castiel. But, I haven’t been able to tolerate him for some time.

        • #3388 Reply
          kate38
          Keymaster

          “I found the acting obvious and distracting. Of course, the actor hasn’t had much to do but fret over Jack, for the last few years. His acting has been limited to redundant lines about Jack’s goodness. And his facial expressions are largely eye rolling and pursed lips. Getting an emotional monologue and a death scene overloaded Misha’s. I am so glad he is dead. I used to love Castiel. But, I haven’t been able to tolerate him for some time.”

          You’re not wrong here, Shannon —
          It’s unfortunate that Castiel has been “reduced” to being Jack’s nurse maid and baby sitter for the past few seasons. I get that the writers wanted to make him more human and more relatable, but it’s a shame that it’s gotten easy to forget he’s even an angel. When he does do something that shows us his powers, it’s almost a surprise. It shouldn’t be that way.

          kate

          • #3389 Reply
            Shannon
            Guest

            Hey! Jack is ready to explode, sending the universe into a black hole. Seraphina Castiel advises Nephilim Jack to “take deep breaths, focus and try to slow this down.” He sounded like a Lamaze coach. Seriously? That’s disgraceful. Yet, I laughed when he said it. It was probably the single most clueless scene to date. I cant even begin to fathom where the writers heads are. And the actors? How can they speak lines like that without literally asking wtf? They can make Castiel as human as they wish; but, do they have to turn him into a joke?
            I so feel for you, Kate; because I know you still have some hope. This show is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Shallow, thoughtless, childish, mind boggling embarrassment. I cant imagine what they next episode will be like, as I am not 5 years old. I am certain it will be nothing like the thoughtful and sincere story that you wrote.

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