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Discussion: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!Reported This is a featured thread

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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 4 2015, 8:51 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 4 2015, 8:51 PM EST
Hey Y'All,

almost time for the next one - on the East Coast at least... - so I wanted to prepare the discussion thread real quick.

Looks like a good old fashioned MOW episode, don't it?!

As long as the Boys are together on it....PIECE OF CAKE, right?

Let's see and discuss later.

PNP
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
1. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 12:24 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 12:24 AM EST
"Hey Y'All,

almost time for the next one - on the East Coast at least... - so I wanted to prepare the discussion thread real quick.

Looks like a good old fashioned MOW episode, don't it?!

As long as the Boys are together on it....PIECE OF CAKE, right?

Let's see and discuss later.

PNP"
Hey PNP,

Thanks for setting this thread up, and for all your other help while I've been away. :)

I'm back now and I'll be updating the episode guides and so on this week, so 'll be setting next week's thread up too. In the meantime I am moving this thread under the right episode guide.

SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
2. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 2:02 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 2:02 AM EST
Hey Guys,

I liked this episode - a good twist at the end.

More later.


SFF
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kate38
kate38
3. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 7:16 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 7:19 AM EST
"Hey Y'All,

almost time for the next one - on the East Coast at least... - so I wanted to prepare the discussion thread real quick.

Looks like a good old fashioned MOW episode, don't it?!

As long as the Boys are together on it....PIECE OF CAKE, right?

Let's see and discuss later.

PNP"
Hey, PNP! Thanks for getting this convo started!

This was a bit of a twist on the MOW episode, right? I thought they were gonna go somewhere with one of the first victims being a descendant of Lizzie, but I appreciated the decoy. Overall, I liked this one. Not my favorite, but Let’s face it, “Baby” is a TOUGH act to follow for any episode!!!

Speaking of Baby, she got pretty beat up in “Baby”, but she was like new in this episode, which presumably took place pretty soon after episode 4 (Cas is still healing and binge watching Netflix). I know that THEY know that WE know Dean fixed her up, but it would be nice to at least have mentioned it.

I hate to disagree with Dean on anything, but opossums are not rats at all. Sorry Sweetie :)

Love Dean’s reaction to the room – all the doilies and the “grandma” perfume. And “I gotta get outta this doily coffin.” – Love it! Such CLASSIC Dean! It’s great to have him back sans Mark of Cain!

...[continued]...
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kate38
kate38
4. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 7:17 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 7:25 AM EST
...[continued]...


Interesting take on the soulless people. I guess some soulless people go nuts and just start killing people, like Jenna and the people in “Mothers’ Little Helper”, but other folks, like Sam and the guy from this episode just handle soullessness more methodically. Hey, if Amara eats your soul, where do you end up?????? And what happens to those souls when the Boys eventually defeat Amara and lock her up again? Will those souls be imprisoned with her forever? Or maybe all the people walking around without souls will get them back if she dies? Of course, that would make me feel bad for the guy who confessed to four murders and will spend the rest of his life in prison WITH his soul back in place. That would suck!

Speaking of Amara, when did she get away from Crowley? I guess she’s too powerful for him to keep her locked up if she doesn’t want to be, but the last time we saw her she was still in his lair. I’m surprised he doesn’t have minions following her. And I like how the writers are slowly revealing more details about Amara. So she can hear prayers now, like an angel? And how did she get from wherever Crowley is to Massachusetts? Can she teleport like demons and angels do?

UGH!! I wish Dean would tell Sam everything about his conversation with Amara. I hope he doesn’t sit on this until it blows up and he has no choice except to fess up. But, that's classic Winchester M.O., isn’t it?

Not a bad episode, I thought :)

Kate

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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
5. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 7:58 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 7:58 AM EST
"Hey PNP,

Thanks for setting this thread up, and for all your other help while I've been away. :)

I'm back now and I'll be updating the episode guides and so on this week, so 'll be setting next week's thread up too. In the meantime I am moving this thread under the right episode guide.

SFF"
Welcome back, SFF!

Didn't mean to do something wrong here/ posting in the wrong place....just trying to keep the convo going, while you were MIA....

Gladly leaving it to you now again.

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
6. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 8:11 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 8:11 AM EST
"Hey, PNP! Thanks for getting this convo started!

"
THANKS, Kate!!!

I really enjoyed this episode!! Soild, Good Ole-Fashioned MOW ep, with a nice twist.

There were a lot of interesting possible options for the killer and I, too, loved the misdirection of it all.

YES, Dean and the flowery room was hillarious!

But I also enjoyed Sam a TON when he explored everything like a little kid and let his serial killer fan hang out. I thought that was adorable and well played by Jared.

I TOTALLY agree with you on the missing comment about Baby's repairs! ONE sentence would have been enough. Maybe Sam sitting on the hood and Dean going "Hey man, I didn't just spent X amount of time to fix her to have you scratch the paint!" or something as simple as that...it was just ignored, :(

Continued....
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
7. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 8:25 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 8:25 AM EST
Continues....

I thought we learned a bunch of new things about Amara and her powers, which is really interesting.

Apparently she can make people feel GOOD, like ecstasy-orgasm-chocolate cake- good...unless she is displeased and then eats their soul.

I am still under the impression that she isn't pure evil...just immensely powerful and currently constantly hungry to get to her "adult" state, I guess?

Good question on where the souls go, Kate!! And if they can be freed...

But does anyone find it interesting that she is powered by human souls at all, when she was locked away long before there were any souls to be eaten? How'd she come up with that idea as a food source?

Also new and interesting is the state of the "hoovered" (LOVED that expression by Dean) people!
IMO getting soulless doesn't mean evil! Well, we kinda knew that from Sam's soulless state already, he wasn't evil, just less inhibited ?!
Dean said something last night about "whatever darkness is within you"....I don't recall the whole sentence, but the sense I got from the soulless people last night was that their apparent dark trades magnify and with the lessening of inhibitions, they go do whatever they don't perceive as wrong anymore....still knowing that it isn't RIGHT, but not caring?!

Len is a very interesting case....he seemed SO harmless and so innocent and his worst traits seemed to have been his shyness, awkwardness and maybe lack of direction?!

What if Amara sent him into the house to kill the babysitter to SAVE Dean?! I don't think Len would have come up with that himself! And Amara's little send off at the very end of the ep seemed as if she knew exactly what happened?

I thought there was a lot more depth to the episode than meets the eye on the suface! Need to watch again.

PNP
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
8. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 8:30 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 8:30 AM EST
"...[continued]...

Speaking of Amara, when did she get away from Crowley? I guess she’s too powerful for him to keep her locked up if she doesn’t want to be, but the last time we saw her she was still in his lair. I’m surprised he doesn’t have minions following her. And I like how the writers are slowly revealing more details about Amara. So she can hear prayers now, like an angel? And how did she get from wherever Crowley is to Massachusetts? Can she teleport like demons and angels do?

Kate

"
Hey Kate,

I think Amara snuck out after eating her second Nanny and Crowley told her to wait before eating again?! I do believe that she cannot be contained by Crowley, unless she wants to be there...

From the previews for next week, it looks like she is back with Crowley....temporarily?!

We probably just have to settle for the fact that we just don't know enough about her at all yet - and maybe even the writers are figuring her out as they go along?! FUN!

I would think she can teleport for sure.

I also would like to know, how she appeared to Dean in her adult form, when she was just being "born" at that time into the baby's body?!

SO many questions... :)

PNP
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kate38
kate38
9. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 5 2015, 10:50 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 5 2015, 10:50 AM EST
"

Good question on where the souls go, Kate!! And if they can be freed...

But does anyone find it interesting that she is powered by human souls at all, when she was locked away long before there were any souls to be eaten? How'd she come up with that idea as a food source?


PNP"
Hey, PNP:)
Great question. We also know that she can survive on demon souls, so maybe she can eat ANY souls (human, angel, demon, leviathan???) and get what she needs. Since god and his archangels are the ones who locked her up before, we at least know there were angels (and probably demons) for her to snack on. I think the fact that now she eats human souls is incidental. There are more of us around...

Kate
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SPN-scifi-fan-607
10. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 7 2015, 5:14 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2015, 5:15 AM EST
Well this was one brilliant episode! I loved the way it was written so that it started out seeming as a good old-fashioned ghost episode, then by the end it had progressed into THAT! Highly well-written, and a wonderfully bendy, twisty and radical road from start to end.

I also really like how with this episode they've started going further into the soulless people and how all of them respond differently and the way they do to losing their soul, after what Season 9 established with Abaddon's soul-mining victims. I also really loved Len the soulless teddy-bear guy.

I'm also highly impressed with how teenage Amara is being portrayed (very good acting and characterisation, this Amara really creeps me out!), and I'm hoping teenage Amara will be around for a few more episodes before we finally get to adult Amara.

Overall, a very good episode, and Season 11 is definitely turning out great thus far!
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kate38
kate38
11. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 7 2015, 11:01 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2015, 11:01 AM EST
Question: Do you guys think Dean was lying at the end when Sam asked if being in Amara's presence made him feel peaceful and he said "no"? I think he was lying and that is part of the reason he hasn't told Sam about their conversation. What do you guys think?
Katey
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
12. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 7 2015, 6:04 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2015, 6:04 PM EST
"Welcome back, SFF!

Didn't mean to do something wrong here/ posting in the wrong place....just trying to keep the convo going, while you were MIA....

Gladly leaving it to you now again.

PNP"
Hey PNP,

Oh, I didn't mean to make ya feel bad at all - sorry, Hon! I'm real grateful ya stepped up and set up the discussions! :)
I just moved your thread under the episode guide and ya couldn't do that as it wasn't set up before!

Apologies for not being online - you know why but I'll tell ya all about it ... thanks so much for what you've done.

SFF
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
13. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 8 2015, 11:36 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 8 2015, 11:36 AM EST
"Question: Do you guys think Dean was lying at the end when Sam asked if being in Amara's presence made him feel peaceful and he said "no"? I think he was lying and that is part of the reason he hasn't told Sam about their conversation. What do you guys think?
Katey"
Hi Kate,

I kinda think that Dean doesn't really know WHAT he was feeling at the moment he first met Amara and that he is currently keeping it from Sam because he is trying to puzzle it out for himself. He seemed to have been confused, a bit overwhelmed and definitely concerned about seeing the Mark so soon again on another person after just getting it off his own arm. I did not get the impression that he was feeling particularly at peace with the situation.

What is your take?

PNP
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Wandlimb
Wandlimb
14. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 8 2015, 7:08 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 8 2015, 7:08 PM EST
"Hi Kate,

I kinda think that Dean doesn't really know WHAT he was feeling at the moment he first met Amara and that he is currently keeping it from Sam because he is trying to puzzle it out for himself. He seemed to have been confused, a bit overwhelmed and definitely concerned about seeing the Mark so soon again on another person after just getting it off his own arm. I did not get the impression that he was feeling particularly at peace with the situation.

What is your take?

PNP"
I think you are right, PNP, but it is kind of hard to say -- was Len sort of a reflection of Dean in that he could think about how he should feel but how he did feel wasn't in harmony with what he knew?

SPN-scifi-fan-607, I also really enjoyed the episode and its twists. Feel like the writers are doing a great job of synthesizing the backgrounds of the characters and the traditions of the show with fresh problems and experiences. There is character development and unsettling challenges, with an un predictable arc for the episode.
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kate38
kate38
15. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 8 2015, 8:20 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 8 2015, 8:20 PM EST
"Hi Kate,

I kinda think that Dean doesn't really know WHAT he was feeling at the moment he first met Amara and that he is currently keeping it from Sam because he is trying to puzzle it out for himself. He seemed to have been confused, a bit overwhelmed and definitely concerned about seeing the Mark so soon again on another person after just getting it off his own arm. I did not get the impression that he was feeling particularly at peace with the situation.

What is your take?

PNP"
I think you're probably right that he's still sorting out what happened and how he feels about the whole thing, but I have this nagging suspicion that there's more to it.

At first, I was very surprised that Dean let her get so close. He knows she's supposed to be evil (sort of), but by the time the camera cut away, it looked like they were going to kiss. In what seemed like a few minutes, he went from pulling a knife on her to getting close enough to kiss -- it didn't make sense to me. UNLESS he does really feel some sort of connection to her like she says. I don't know if it's a peaceful feeling or not, but it's clearly an emotional connection that troubles him. Remember when he told Sam that holding the Blade made him feel "peaceful"? Maybe these feelings are similar?

Whether it's peace or not, I think Dean is uncomfortable with his feelings of "closeness" to Amara, and that's the big reason he hasn't told Sam yet. Maybe he feels guilty or ashamed by feelings that are positive in some way and he isn't ready to admit that to Sam yet.

Kate
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
16. RE: Let's all talk "Thin Lizzie" (S11 E05) here!!
Nov 8 2015, 8:32 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 8 2015, 8:32 PM EST
"I think you're probably right that he's still sorting out what happened and how he feels about the whole thing, but I have this nagging suspicion that there's more to it.

At first, I was very surprised that Dean let her get so close. He knows she's supposed to be evil (sort of), but by the time the camera cut away, it looked like they were going to kiss. In what seemed like a few minutes, he went from pulling a knife on her to getting close enough to kiss -- it didn't make sense to me. UNLESS he does really feel some sort of connection to her like she says. I don't know if it's a peaceful feeling or not, but it's clearly an emotional connection that troubles him. Remember when he told Sam that holding the Blade made him feel "peaceful"? Maybe these feelings are similar?

Whether it's peace or not, I think Dean is uncomfortable with his feelings of "closeness" to Amara, and that's the big reason he hasn't told Sam yet. Maybe he feels guilty or ashamed by feelings that are positive in some way and he isn't ready to admit that to Sam yet.

Kate"
AGREED...SIGH...shame, secrets, discomfort.... the Boys should be soooo passed all this...

PnP
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