- This topic has 33 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 7 months ago by Shannon.
November 17, 2020 at 9:53 am #3457
Here we go! One more time! I can’t wait to hear what everyone thinks!
November 19, 2020 at 10:06 pm #3476kate38Guest
Well, my expectations were pretty low, but this episode still managed to not meet them.
The retrospective was nice, but didn’t really give me anything unexpected. It was nice to see Mark Sheppard again.
I liked the little Easter eggs and nods to earlier seasons. By the way, was that Bob Singer in the background when Dean got the pie in the face? It looked like Bob Singer, and he directed this episode. ?
Dean’s death scene was perfectly heartbreaking and perfectly executed. One of the best scenes in the entire series. However, are we to believe that the guy who has faced and defeated cosmic forces was killed by a simple vampire? That seemed cheap, like they needed to kill him, but didn’t have any good ideas.
Bobby said that Cas helped change heaven. Does that mean Cas is in heaven? I can’t see how Cas could make any changes from the Empty.
Other than that, I didn’t like this ending at all. I’m guessing Dean’s heaven montage was originally supposed to include reunions with his parents, Rufus, and the rest of the crew at the Roadhouse, but because of COVID, they just had Dean driving along heaven’s back roads while Sam continued hunting on Earth for 50 years or so?
I’m disappointed in so many things about this finale, but I’m grateful that I still have 14 ½ seasons to enjoy. I think these characters deserved a better ending.
November 20, 2020 at 8:21 pm #3520
what made it seem hollow and unhappy to you?
And I got melancholy, but not unhappiness from the Sam life montage.
Like when he climbed into the Impala as a old man for example, it felt to me like he was feeling close to Dean there and that he missed him and that he maybe was “telling” Dean that he wouldn’t have to wait much longer, but he did not seem generally unhappy or suicidal to me.
I am very sorry that it felt wrong and depressing to you!!!!!
November 21, 2020 at 5:03 pm #3545
what made it seem hollow and unhappy to you?”
We only saw Sam smile a few times in that whole montage. He smiled in the beginning when he picked up toddler Dean, and he may have smiled a little when he was playing ball in the yard with young Dean. Other than that, it looked to me like he was just going through the motions of being a good father.
Sorry, but I don’t think that lady in the background was Eileen. The hair color looked too light.
I guess we all had a different take on that last montage.
November 19, 2020 at 10:22 pm #3479
Dean’s death scene was well done, but kinda long. It felt like they were drawing it out to make it more emotional, but it was already emotional, so it just seemed too long. I let myself go there, but I felt manipulated, so that stopped it from being as sad as it was supposed to be.
November 19, 2020 at 11:21 pm #3483ShannonGuest
November 20, 2020 at 8:32 pm #3521
Super interesting to me how different we all felt the episode!!
November 19, 2020 at 10:38 pm #3480
What happened to the Winchester doppelgangers?
Sam locked up the bunker forever? He didn’t leave the key OR the brothers’ legacy to anybody? Such a waste.
Are we to assume that all the AU hunters who got zapped away came back? I get that with COVID they couldn’t bring people to Vancouver to film, but a phone call from Jody or Donna, to confirm they’re alive, would’ve been nice.
November 19, 2020 at 11:12 pm #3481ShannonGuest
November 19, 2020 at 11:41 pm #3485
Hi, Shannon —
All you said is very true.
in a room that nobody will ever see. All their knowledge, their journal, John’s journal — all that information died with Dean, since Sam walked away and didn’t do anything with it. What a waste. There was no indication that Sam ever even told his wife and son who he truly was. He didn’t pass his legacy on to anybody. What a waste of everything he’d learned over his years of hunting!
November 20, 2020 at 8:50 pm #3523
But all that was lifted when Fortuna gave them the coin and their “luck” back.
November 22, 2020 at 6:16 am #3553ShannonGuest
During Moriah, it was made clear, by retconning Chuck into a psychopathic obsessed writer, that Sam and Dean were controlled, puppets, which further reduces them.
So, yes, that is exactly what I am saying.
November 20, 2020 at 8:42 pm #3522
I understand Sam’s son to be the main legacy now.
November 21, 2020 at 5:14 pm #3546
I understand Sam’s son to be the main legacy now.”
November 19, 2020 at 11:16 pm #3482
Long ago, I said they’d die (I thought/hoped together) and they’d go to heaven TO THE ROADHOUSE and everyone they loved would be there to welcome them. Which would have been exactly what happened if not for covid.
So in many ways it was exactly as I expected, not what I wanted, and beautifully executed. It was so beautifully done and acted that I cannot hate it.
It did kill me that:
Dean did not get more time to live life free from Chuck. That was wrong.
Sam alone in the bunker made me nauseous. Thank God for the dog or I would have wanted to kill myself watching Sam sit alone in Dean’s room where it looked like he’d come back any minute or cooking breakfast alone where the toaster made him flinch.
After everything, Samm just let Dean go. Are we to believe Sam learned his lesson about making deals, finally? But after ALL they’ve gone through, this felt like Dean survived the war only to be killed in a minor car crash – a run-of-the-mill hunt.
Sam holding the Impala steering wheel like he could FEEL Dean driving in heaven was so painful and beautiful but the makeup (or lack thereof) there was so bad – a cardigan and a wig??? – that it took me out of the scene a bit.
AT LEAST Dean didn’t have to do anything but go for a drive, because time is weird in heaven, before Sam lived 50 more years and showed up.
It felt wrong to me to separate them for that long because, I agree with Kate, that Sam’s life would never have been truly happy without Dean.
What did Sam die of in the end?
I know that, realistically, Supernatural is not going to give us a happy ending. I know that. But am emotionally very not okay with Dean dying young after ALL he’s given, though my wife said it had to be that way because Dean would want Sam to go on and have a chance – but he did not even die FOR Sam. I have a problem that he died pretty much by accident.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by journalbookbinder.
November 19, 2020 at 11:49 pm #3486
Dean deserved a better death. And Sam deserved a better life.
November 20, 2020 at 9:02 pm #3524
Absolutely, yes! I did not WANT Dean to die young!!! There is no joy in it for me.
But I don’t see Sam’s life as unhappy.
November 19, 2020 at 11:23 pm #3484
November 20, 2020 at 10:20 am #3493
Okay. I have more thoughts the next morning. I couldn’t fall asleep last night, then couldn’t stay asleep, and when I was asleep I had a horrible dream that my best friends had died and I was now all alone like Sam. I was very glad to wake up from that dream.
Yup, it totally got to me.
So I got up, went for a long walk, then, since I was alone in the house, I turned the sound way up and re-watched Dean’s death, then Sam’s death, then them meeting up in heaven so I could hear everything perfectly.
I think the ending was good. If SAM had died, Dean would been undone or suicidal, I think. He would have become, I think, harder or more self-destructive. I think about Jensen’s original imagined/dreamed ending where he meets a stranger on a motorcycle in the middle of nowhere and hands him the keys to the Impala and he takes the bike; because Sam’s gone and he doesn’t need a car with a passenger seat. I think that would have been more cruel for Dean; to live without Sam. While Dean did not go out in a blaze of glory, he DID go down swinging. He went down fighting. With Sam. And Sam was with him when he died; he got to say what was most important to say. So, that’s a lot for Dean to get – that felt like he had that part of things the way he needed them. Time to tell Sam what he needed to tell him. Sam with him and telling him what he needed to hear too.
Dean died happier knowing Sam was NOT dying. He would always rather he die than Sam.
It was not fair for Sam. But he did get more experiences, and a son, and got to be a better father than his own father. And Sam did not have to die alone either – he was with his son who obviously loved him. The parallel tears when Dean died, then Sam years later was just gut wrenching. Someone on Twitter also pointed out that Sam was wearing Dean’s watch when he died.
And when they met up in heaven, Dean just looked satisfied. Like all was right again. That was good. Was that version of Carry On Briana’s version? It was so incredibly beautiful and so perfect for the very end. We got the rock version with Dean driving; then that one when they were reunited (and during Sam’s death). It was just so freakin’ beautiful.
Last night I was unhappy that Dean did not die saving Sam or in some huge blaze of glory, but he did get the heaven he deserved, one that an entity HE HELPED RAISE set up to be better than anything that came before. The song was beautiful. The setting (heaven) was beautiful. That all felt very right to me. Though I wanted his death to be more “important”, when I think about it, he had NOTHING left to prove as Dean has sacrificed himself so many different ways for so many different people over the years.
So I watched it again (just those few parts) and cried my eyes out and took a shower and cried my eyes out and hope that now that I’m at work I won’t keep crying my eyes out. I’ve always loved Supernatural for being funny and tragic. Like Mystery Spot. It was both here (only a tiny bit of “funny” at the start).
I cannot hate Andrew Dabb for that ending. It was too beautiful.
My own love for Sam and Dean makes me so sad but they are not superhuman. They were going to have to die someday and some way. When I think about what DEAN would want…well, I can see this as one version of something Dean would want or expect for himself.
And Sam got to pass on their knowledge to his son who was obviously some sort of hunter with the tattoo. If they had both died at once, that (except for whatever they’d written down) would have been lost.
I called the Roadhouse in heaven thing long ago. I feel somewhat vindicated there…I had said awhile back that they would die and walk into the Roadhouse and everyone would be there. That WOULD have been an even less painful ending, but it was very powerful (and, probably better in the end) to have just the two of them. It helped soften things to have Bobby there. I’m glad they went to the trouble of getting him and quarantining him for just a few minutes of screen time.
The dog should have shown up in heaven long before Sam – like, Dean should have slowed down and picked it up on the side of the road at some point in his split-second 40-year drive.
What does everyone think about the masked vampires? I honestly thought they did that so that some poor actor with a face did not get all the hate for being the one who killed Dean Winchester. We’ve never seen vampires wearing masks before – some kind of weird vampire sect? They were recorded way back in John’s journal. SPN vampires have never worn masks – ever. I thought they kind of got in the way. PigNaPoke said perhaps that was supposed to be the stand-in suggesting that any faceless monster (any type of monster) could have been the one to kill Dean and this was how his end would go no matter what killed him.
For God’s sake, everyone, if you have a piece of sharp rebar sticking out of a post at chest or waist level, go take that shit down today!
I love this show. I love this family. I loved their thank-you at the end. This ending did not destroy any of that. I’m very very very sad it’s over. It will take me some time to be okay and not think, every time I watch an episode “Dean dies and leaves Sam alone” – but I’m sure I’ll get to a point where I won’t think that.
I wonder if Jensen was just unhappy with Dean dying because he wanted them to be able to come back, or if there were other reasons when he initially read the script? Maybe he’ll talk about it someday. He’s usually pretty honest; like about how he hated the Lucifer showdown season finale when it LOOKED like they were flying around on strings.
I WILL say it greatly affected me.
November 20, 2020 at 9:13 pm #3525
Hi JBB, I agree 100% with everything you so eloquently said and felt very similarly about it all.
I do love that we all have different opinions and can discuss them freely here!!!
I love that the show has such deep and lasting effect on so many people.
I will NEVER stop loving the show and all it has brought to my life!!!
But if it had to end, I am glad it was this way. I had MANY visions of worse (for me) endings.
November 21, 2020 at 5:32 pm #3547
I’m curious to hear what everyone else thinks, but I think that if Sam had died, Dean would’ve kept hunting. Dean has always been more committed to the “family business” than Sam has. Dean’s never willingly walked away from that commitment to save people. I think Dean would’ve considered it an obligation to John, Sam, and everyone else who has supported them along the way to keep hunting.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by kate38.
November 20, 2020 at 10:22 am #3495
The thought crossed my mind…though Sam and Dean are human, were they trying to say that they only STAYED alive through all those earlier extraordinary circumstances because God made sure they did? Without God (even an evil God), they are now extra-human and can die in a regular fight in spite of their skills? I have to admit I DID want Dean to be more superhero, but that’s not what Supernatural has tried to convey over the years.
November 20, 2020 at 9:23 pm #3526
I really don’t think THAT was was the writers had in mind!!! That would carelessly undo fifteen years of having the Winchesters expand their knowledge and gain skills. To me that part of them was never influenced by God’s writing. Didn’t he say at some point that he set scenarios and gave them plot lines but their movement through that was their decision and could surprise him? To me God set up the characters (maybe) and set them loose, but a lot of what they BECAME was their doing and free will. I don’t buy that with God’s defeat the Winchesters became LESSER.
November 21, 2020 at 5:43 pm #3551
This is exactly what I think! They wanted Chuck out of their lives, but this was a case of “be careful what you wish for.” They don’t have “bad” luck, like before the pool hall episode. But they also don’t have plot armor or heroes luck. They are cosmically naked. So yes — without those literary protections, you get a mundane, blue collar death like getting impaled on a giant nail.
November 20, 2020 at 10:29 am #3497
I disagree with the idea that Sam walked away from the bunker. To me, I felt he HAD to walk away right then. Living there without Dean was SO INCREDIBLY PAINFUL to watch. But he got a call on Dean’s old phone and it reminded him of his purpose. I think he left to do that hunt. To try to help someone to work through his grief. I know it appeared that he and his family lived in a totally different house (obviously not the bunker), but Sam’s son was also obviously a hunter with the anti-possession tattoo OR at least Sam had to tell him enough about hunting to understand why he had to get that tattoo. I took that as his son being SOME kind of hunter or at least knowledgeable. In my mind, the bunker became a resource. In my mind, it wasn’t that Sam never went back, it’s that he could not live there without Dean.
November 20, 2020 at 9:25 pm #3527
Hehe, I said the same thing, JBB.
I agree with you.
November 21, 2020 at 5:49 pm #3552
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by kate38.
November 20, 2020 at 10:32 am #3498
I loved them thanking us at the end. And the drone shot of the whole crew. It’s always felt like a family and it really continues to feel that way – more than ever.
November 20, 2020 at 9:28 pm #3528
THAT was awesome!!!
But again, it was nice.
November 20, 2020 at 6:24 pm #3517
pardon the delay….I needed a little while and a second watch to organize my feelings.
November 20, 2020 at 7:58 pm #3518
pardon the delay….I needed a little while and a second watch to organize my feelings.
Secondly, please forgive me for NOT reading everyone’s comments before unloading my view points here.
And it’s very important for me to say THIS IS ONLY MY PERSONAL VIEW!!!! I completely understand and respect anyone’s opinions to differ from mine.
We are all so deeply touched by, attached to and affected by the Winchester Brothers in so many different ways that I don’t think there is ONE RIGHT opinion, just a multitude of beautifully complex view points depending on how we relate to the characters.
SO, with that said, here are my VERY PERSONAL feelings:
On first watch I liked the episode and ending of our 15-year journey a lot.
On second watch I have to say I LOVED IT! And I feel the masochistic urge to watch it again just now, but I know I need a break and let it percolate a little first.
Don’t get me wrong, I was definitely SHOCKED and SICKENED that they would let Dean die so very soon after they finally managed to get out from under the constant manipulation by Chuck and had a whole “normal” hunting life together in front of them!!!! THAT part – the much too short time – is the only part I really resent for the sake of the characters. They could have easily given us the impression that more time passed before the doomed hunt!
But there was so much I did like about the episode that I was able to deal with the shocking death of my favorite character.
LOVED the starting montage of normal life at the bunker. (I would have liked a little conversation about “what are we doing to do now that we’re free” “hunting, of course” before that, though)
LOVED the visit to the pie fest including the pie face and that Dean ate the pie OFF his face as a nice harkening back to fun, silly episodes of the past!
LOVED every single scene between Sam and Dean – I thought it was excellent dialogue writing and of course J2 knocked it all out of the park.
LOVED what Jack did in Heaven!! Breaking down all the walls to let people actually have an “AFTER LIFE” and not just a rerun of their favorite memories!! (Would have liked a little more on HOW CAS helped??!!)
LOVED to have REAL Bobby back!! (I chose to believe everyone else was partying at the Roadhouse – and that Sam and Dean joined the party after meeting up on the bridge. (that was probably the part that got X-d because of covid)
LOVED that Sam honored Dean’s last request and went on to live a full live (in my head there is no doubt that the woman was EILEEN), had a kid named Dean and obviously indoctrinated that son into the family business (judging by the son’s antipossession tattoo)!!!! He left a Winchester legacy this way! And I find it comforting to know that there is another Winchester in the world with knowledge of the bunker and the friends out there and the able to retell the EPIC story of Sam and Dean’s life (maybe document it).
LOVED that Dean chose to spend his time in heaven with a joy ride in Baby while waiting for Sam. (And what GORGEOUS drone shots that brought on!!!)
LOVED that Sam and Dean got back together and now have an eternity of after life together.
LOVED the chosen music and its placement throughout. GREAT new version of Carry On at the end was haunting and beautiful to me.
I don’t even mind that a ‘simple’ vampire overpowered Dean (he was a burley SOB!!) and that bad luck during a ‘normal’ hunt killed him (IF HE HAD TO DIE….)!! That, to me, just showed that despite all the immense skill and superior knowledge and outstanding tools they have access to Sam and Dean are still only HUMAN.
I feel VERY STRONGLY that what made me fall in love with the Winchesters and make them heroes to me is that they are NOT superheroes, can’t fly, don’t have special powers, are scared at times, are vulnerable always, BUT go out and fight and make the world a better place ANYWAY!!! The are relatable that way like no other hero character out there is to me.
The masks on the vampires didn’t bother me either. To me it symbolized that ANY faceless monster could be the death of our heroes.
So, there was a lot I very much found touching, thoughtful, heart-wrenching, fitting and compelling about the episode but the scene in the barn preceding Dean’s death was truly blowing my mind and I couldn’t take my eyes off it (even though I SOBBED through it!):
For me that scene was one of THE BEST EVER on the show because it had the combined weight of fifteen years of rich story lines AND the actors knowledge and love for the characters AND the actors very personal goodbye from these characters behind it!! It’s the most POWERFUL thing I have ever seen AND FELT watching! I love letter between the brothers -on screen and off. Completely open and vulnerable!!!
Dean’s speech to Sam was INCREDIBLE!!!! Telling Sam that he was his rock all along, that he was scared when he first picked him up for fear of being kicked to the curb, that he looked up to Sam for being smart and tough and strong, that he wouldn’t have made it without him, that he needs him to Always Keep Fighting, that he will always be there with him….it all was PERFECT and things I long “knew” in my heart but was appreciating to hear!!
Dean has always been the ultimate champion for Sam, out of deep love, and now he was still protective and fighting for Sam until his LAST BREATH, asking for Sam’s permission to go!!! That about KILLED ME!!!! And Jensen is simply a GOD to me. There is no one out there who could have pulled this off better.
I thought Jared completely held his own as well and ripped my heart out in the barn scene and his lonely wanderings and silent tears in the bunker after.
Yes, I can freely admit that this was not my ideal ending and I can also say that it would have been VASTLY preferable to me to know that they are still “out there” and protecting the world even if we cannot see them.
I was also not in great favor to have the brothers separated for so long – especially from Sam’s view.
But I found it compelling story telling to give Sam that long life and family he didn’t seek but (to me) got to enjoy before reuniting with Dean in Heaven.
And to me Dean was at peace in Heaven and seemed fulfilled when Sam joined him there.
Beautifully at peace and done….JUST like the song says.
I also appreciated the many easter eggs I saw (mostly on second run through):
– Dabb’s pies was written on the food truck at the Pie Fest
– Sam and Dean introduced themselves to the police officer as FBI Agents Singer and Kripke
– Sam was wearing Dean’s watch on his death bed
– First and last words spoked by (adult) Dean in the entire run of the series were “Hey, Sammy”
– Baby had her old plates back in heaven
– Sam and Dean wore the same clothes on the bridge at the end as while hunting in the Pilot.
I’m sure there were more…
I know there are a lot of mixed feelings about the writers and creators of the show. And I did not love everyone’s effort and view points equally, BUT NO MATTER if I liked the ending or not, I do not have ANY DOUBT that everyone involved making it put their heart blood into it!!!!
And I can accept this version of the end of the road for the Winchesters as a carefully crafted artistic expression of the show creators and involved talent with satisfaction and as fitting for our show.
November 21, 2020 at 3:26 am #3544ShannonGuest
November 21, 2020 at 5:34 pm #3549
“For God’s sake, everyone, if you have a piece of sharp rebar sticking out of a post at chest or waist level, go take that shit down today!”
LOL!!! You crack me up, JBB! I think we all needed that guffaw today 🙂 Thanks!!
November 21, 2020 at 5:38 pm #3550
“I have to say the “LONG ROAD HOME” episode was not very impressive!! It was nice, but it felt like a bonus extra on the season bluray. There wasn’t really anything new to be gained from it.
But again, it was nice.
I agree, PNP!!!!
The retrospective felt “nice”, but I didn’t learn anything and there was nothing unexpected. And you’re right that it felt like something that will be on the DVD. It probably will.
I would’ve LOVED more behind-the-scenes footage like they crunched in at the end. THAT would’ve been fun! Boy, could I use the season gag reel today 🙁