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SuperZu
SuperZu
Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 6:50 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 6:50 AM EDT
What's the scoop? Talk about the episode here! Do you find this valuable?    
CarusoGirl222
CarusoGirl222
1. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 4:44 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 4:44 PM EDT
YESSSS! CASTIEL'S BACK!!! 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
CarusoGirl222
CarusoGirl222
2. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 4:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:00 PM EDT
Poor, poor Sammy! I feel SO bad for him! I felt really bad for Dean last season because of Cass going behind his back and LYING to him about the whole deal with Crowley, even though he's the only person Dean's ever fully, truly trusted, but this is SO much worse! He's being pwned by Lucifer! AGAIN!

Oh, crap! CASS! NOOOOOOO!!!!! D'X
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1raith
1raith
3. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:04 PM EDT
I liked the episode. It truly sucks that as soon as we get Cas back, he's out of the picture again. At least he's alive this time. I wonder what Meg has planned. I believe she wants Lucifer to take over Castiel's body. Do you find this valuable?    
SuperZu
SuperZu
4. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:03 PM EDT
Poetic ... the ultimate sacrifice!
What a well-written episode!
The only thing that didn't make sense to me is why all of a sudden the demons are after Dean ... when we haven't seen many of them for so long.
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tamsamdean
tamsamdean
5. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:13 PM EDT
Was great...Cas back! Mark did great in this episode too; his portrayal of Lucifier is fascinating to watch. When Cas did that at the end...I was floored, but it was so typically Castiel, taking Sam's insanity on himself as a way of penience was amazing. Dean just breaks my heart; all our friends are dead, think back to the book disappearing off the table and all of a sudden on the floor with no sound and the card underneath it...Bobby is still around! He didn't go with the reaper; he stayed to help HIS boys! Meg watching out for Cas..I don't know about that.
PLEASE SIR, CAN I HAVE SOME MORE!
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CarusoGirl222
CarusoGirl222
6. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:15 PM EDT
"The only thing that didn't make sense to me is why all of a sudden the demons are after Dean ... when we haven't seen many of them for so long."
Yeah... that was the only detail that seemed a little off to me... The only demon we've seen all season up until now was Crowley, and even he didn't come up much.
I mean, didn't Sera say this season was gonna focus more on the Levaithans and getting back to urban ledgends and spirits and stuff like that, what this show was built off of?
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1raith
1raith
7. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:30 PM EDT
"Poetic ... the ultimate sacrifice!
What a well-written episode!
The only thing that didn't make sense to me is why all of a sudden the demons are after Dean ... when we haven't seen many of them for so long."
A demon in this ep told Dean that Crowley has become irritated that they didn't deliver any results in killing the Leviathans. Though, I don't buy that for a second. Crowley knows not to underestimate the bros. Something is up in the demon world, and Meg might be behind it. And since it wasn't mentioned, I assume Frank is 100% dead.
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SuperZu
SuperZu
8. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:28 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:28 PM EDT
"Was great...Cas back! Mark did great in this episode too; his portrayal of Lucifier is fascinating to watch. When Cas did that at the end...I was floored, but it was so typically Castiel, taking Sam's insanity on himself as a way of penience was amazing. Dean just breaks my heart; all our friends are dead, think back to the book disappearing off the table and all of a sudden on the floor with no sound and the card underneath it...Bobby is still around! He didn't go with the reaper; he stayed to help HIS boys! Meg watching out for Cas..I don't know about that.
PLEASE SIR, CAN I HAVE SOME MORE!"
Agreed! Mark P was awesomeness incorporated! And Bobby is *definitely* around! Amazing...
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SuperZu
SuperZu
9. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 5:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 5:29 PM EDT
"A demon in this ep told Dean that Crowley was become irritated that they didn't deliver any results in killing the Leviathans. Though, I don't buy that for a second. Crowley knows not to underestimate the bros. Something is up in the demon world, and Meg might be behind it. And since it wasn't mentioned, I assume Frank is 100% dead."
I agree - something seems to be up in the demon-verse!
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Nikcon7
Nikcon7
10. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 23 2012, 7:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2012, 7:48 PM EDT
* Sammy's broken!!!! No!!!! - I've always loved the Lucifer character, but he felt more like an annoying little brat than the evil SOB we know he truly is.
* Meg??? - - that rotten little (insert MANY expletives and vulgar names) - - I still haven't forgiven you for Ellen and Jo. Not even if you end up taking out Crowely. Nope, I never will.
* Marin (sp?) - the girl patient haunted by her dead brother? I honestly thought that she was just a trick crafted by Lucifer to make Sam feel like he was being helpful and doing one last deed, and then pull the rug out from under him at the last minute. Alas, I was wrong about that - thank goodness!
* Castiel!!!!! Oh, my Cass - where have you been all year? Oh, wait, you've been shacked up with a new wife. Isn't Jimmy still your vessel, who is already married? Or did the Leviathans wipe out his soul when you were carting them around?
* Oh, and shouldn't his trenchcoat have miraculously become clean once he put it back on?!?
* (BTW, when Dean got his trench out of the trunk of that beat-up piece of junk he's driving - - (get the Impala back STAT!) - all I could think was, "It's like Superman's cape!!!"
* Cass fixes Sam - Hallelujah!!! Sammy's back!! Now he can shave.....
* But now Cass is broken?!? You can't take him away from me once you finally give him back!!! I'm heartbroken all over again over my favorite angel.
* And yes, Bobby is definitely still around, helping Dean and Sam. I just hope his spirit is staying as intact as possible so that he doesn't become vengeful like spirits normally do. Or, he's a solution - - just bring him back to life!!!!!!
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
11. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 1:29 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 1:30 AM EDT
Loved this ep! Really very good!
But I don't get what Cas did to Sam - is he somehow channelling the pain and madness of Sam's soul into himself? I mean, Sam's still got his soul and the wall is broken forever, so I suppose there's some psychic link going on?
Obviously Meg' s got her own agenda, I like the idea that she might be trying to bring Lucifer back through Cas.
I do hope Crowley comes back into the mix, I miss him.
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janicec678
12. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 5:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 5:59 AM EDT
I thought this episode was MAGNIFICENT! Yes, there was some more stuff I would have liked to have seen, but we were forced to suffer because of the constraints of a one-hour show. Cas's reintroduction was handled beautifully and despite how betrayed Dean had felt at what Cas had done, he set that aside and treated him as gently as he could up to the point Cas got his memories back.

Jared was BRILLIANT as Sam at the end of his rope. Not crazy, not insane...he was obviously all there and completely lucid...just slowly dying from not being able to sleep. I LOVED that they put in the part about him helping the girl, even in his totally devastated condition. He was still a hunter and recognized what hearing from her as a ghost even though he could have just been totally wrapped up in his own head. That's what heroes do!!

It was GREAT seeing them mix it up with demons again! Sometime the classics are the best.

As for Cas's choice at the end to take Sam's hell memories and lucifer hallucinations onto himself, it was a totally redemptive moment for him. I mean, let's face, Sam would never have been there in the first place if it hadn't been for what Cas had done to him, and Cas choosing to do whatever was necessary to right that wrong was AWESOME. And I think Cas will be far more okay with it than Sam was -- for one thing, what was killing Sam was not the hallucinations themselves...he had been living with them for months and was NOT insane. It was the lack of sleep that was pushing him over the edge and killing him. Angels don't need to sleep, so once Cas can figure out how to deal with the Lucifer hallucinations, he can maybe start to get a handle on it, too, just as Sam had done.

I LOVED it!
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SuperZu
SuperZu
13. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 6:49 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 6:49 AM EDT
"* Sammy's broken!!!! No!!!! - I've always loved the Lucifer character, but he felt more like an annoying little brat than the evil SOB we know he truly is.
* Castiel!!!!! Oh, my Cass - where have you been all year? Oh, wait, you've been shacked up with a new wife. Isn't Jimmy still your vessel, who is already married? Or did the Leviathans wipe out his soul when you were carting them around?
* Oh, and shouldn't his trenchcoat have miraculously become clean once he put it back on?!?
* (BTW, when Dean got his trench out of the trunk of that beat-up piece of junk he's driving - - (get the Impala back STAT!) - all I could think was, "It's like Superman's cape!!!"
* Cass fixes Sam - Hallelujah!!! Sammy's back!! Now he can shave.....
* And yes, Bobby is definitely still around, helping Dean and Sam. I just hope his spirit is staying as intact as possible so that he doesn't become vengeful like spirits normally do. Or, he's a solution - - just bring him back to life!!!!!!"
Love most of your comments! But I saw Luci very differently ... he was the ultimate torturer, employing the same techniques used in wartime by unscrupulous enemies to break opposing soldiers. And he did it all with a smirk and laughing at his victim. Sent shivers down my spine.

Ahem, that was no piece of junk Dean was driving -- that's an old Dodge Charger -- coolest car they've had on the show since the Impala went away! (But yes, they will bring back the Metallicar, and it won't be too soon for me!)

"Now he can shave..." ROFL!
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SuperZu
SuperZu
14. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 6:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 6:51 AM EDT
"I thought this episode was MAGNIFICENT! Yes, there was some more stuff I would have liked to have seen, but we were forced to suffer because of the constraints of a one-hour show. Cas's reintroduction was handled beautifully and despite how betrayed Dean had felt at what Cas had done, he set that aside and treated him as gently as he could up to the point Cas got his memories back.

Jared was BRILLIANT as Sam at the end of his rope. Not crazy, not insane...he was obviously all there and completely lucid...just slowly dying from not being able to sleep. I LOVED that they put in the part about him helping the girl, even in his totally devastated condition. He was still a hunter and recognized what hearing from her as a ghost even though he could have just been totally wrapped up in his own head. That's what heroes do!!

It was GREAT seeing them mix it up with demons again! Sometime the classics are the best.

As for Cas's choice at the end to take Sam's hell memories and lucifer hallucinations onto himself, it was a totally redemptive moment for him. I mean, let's face, Sam would never have been there in the first place if it hadn't been for what Cas had done to him, and Cas choosing to do whatever was necessary to right that wrong was AWESOME. And I think Cas will be far more okay with it than Sam was -- for one thing, what was killing Sam was not the hallucinations themselves...he had been living with them for months and was NOT insane. It was the lack of sleep that was pushing him over the edge and killing him. Angels don't need to sleep, so once Cas can figure out how to deal with the Lucifer hallucinations, he can maybe start to get a handle on it, too, just as Sam had done.

I LOVED it! "
Here here!
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SuperZu
SuperZu
15. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 6:53 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 6:53 AM EDT
When Castiel "transferred" the visions from Sam to himself, it made feel as though it was not just "all in his head." I mean, hallucinations and memories alone would not lay an angel flat. It makes me feel like there was something else -- a disease or permanent scar on Sam's soul that Cas was able to take into himself. Very interesting ... Do you find this valuable?    
CaroleC
CaroleC
16. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 7:14 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 1:37 PM EDT
"* Sammy's broken!!!! No!!!! - I've always loved the Lucifer character, but he felt more like an annoying little brat than the evil SOB we know he truly is."
My son and I had a discussion about this. He was saying, basically, "Is that childish stuff all Lucifer's GOT?!"

My opinion is that Sam's like Monty Python's Brave Sir Robin: Not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp, or to have his eyes gouged out, or his elbows broken... tralala (Look the song up, it's hilarious. No. Look up Supernatural's Flying Circus on Youtube. It's even better--and watch the credits. Be warned, it's using clips of Monty Python, so it's NSFW and may be considered a tad raunchy at the start.)

Anyway, back to the point at hand. Torture, real "conventional" torture, Sam could withstand. BUT--- Sam has NEVER suffered fools lightly, and childish behavior makes him incredibly uncomfortable. We've seen this over and over from the first episode onward.

So, for Sam, his version of Hell is more like being eternally trapped in the back seat with the Worst Bullying Little Brother EVER. Constant, unceasing poking, annoyance and noise.

Hmm. Coupled with ruthless sleep deprivation? Yeah, sounds like Hell to me too. And Lucifer IS an evil SOB still. He's just tailoring his fiendish evil to suit Sam's vulnerabilites perfectly.
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Reza-supernatural
Reza-supernatural
17. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 9:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 9:08 PM EDT
I say the best of season!!!(so far)
1- Sam in such a pain was really HEARTBREAKING:every terrible thing boys have experienced so far something, this kind of torture something else.
2- I said HEARTBREAKING ; cas left with lucifer in his mind (despite I like the idea he can handle it better than sam) is HEARTBREAKING too, even if he fixed his own mistakes.
3- as it is mentioned, Sam saving someone and doing his job even in this situation was great. That's like HEROS.
4- oh , I said heroes; someone is helping his HERO boys. bobby is still around and he accepted to remain an spirit only to help the boys.that's EPIC
5- and EPIC; the scene cas was remembering everything was also EPIC.and so was the way they brought him back. I didn't expect such a REMARKABLE return.
6- also one more thing was REMARKABLE in my book; cas sacrificed himself for sammy without any hesitation. so even if he started all this leviathan story,he is after all...
7- and meanwhile I think lucifer( that I really dislike) was also really funny this time.
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Reza-supernatural
Reza-supernatural
18. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 24 2012, 9:10 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2012, 9:11 PM EDT
" And I think Cas will be far more okay with it than Sam was -- for one thing, what was killing Sam was not the hallucinations themselves...he had been living with them for months and was NOT insane. It was the lack of sleep that was pushing him over the edge and killing him. Angels don't need to sleep, so once Cas can figure out how to deal with the Lucifer hallucinations, he can maybe start to get a handle on it, too, just as Sam had done.

I LOVED it! "
very good point janicec678, I like this idea.
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medic04
medic04
19. RE: Talk about THE BORN-AGAIN IDENTITY here!
Mar 25 2012, 11:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 25 2012, 11:24 AM EDT
I'm going to have to re-watch it because I kept getting interrupted. The one thing I thought about was Bobby's spirit. We pretty much all agree that's who it is. The reaper knew he was a hunter and probably knew he's be cremated but offered Bobby the choice to stay or go anyway. Does this mean there is a part of Bobby out there that is allowing him to stay here? If so, what? Do you find this valuable?    
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