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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener - "Black"!
May 21 2014, 10:08 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 22 2014, 6:08 AM EDT
Hey All,

If you want to talk about next Season, in particular the Season 10 Opener, feel free to do so here. Let us know what you're looking forward to, as well as what your concerns are...

*** THIS THREAD DOES CONTAIN SPOILERS! ***


SFF
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vanillefang
vanillefang
1. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 22 2014, 9:25 AM EDT | Post edited: May 22 2014, 9:25 AM EDT
While it is a bit early for me to start being wrong about what might happen next year, I am interested in seeing how Sam and Dean interact. Will Dean reveal to Sam what has happened, or will Dean even still be in the bunker? Perhaps Crowley will take him away in the opener to keep him from Sam. I also think we won't see Cas until they are ready to reveal to Sam his brother is a demon, since Cas would obviously see Dean for what he has become. I do hope they hold off for at least a few episodes before they resolve Dean's plight, and I kinda hope they split up Sam and Dean for a episode or two. Perhaps they could do a Dean only episode for the opener and then follow it up with Sam's? That might be interesting. Do you find this valuable?    
madmanwithanimpala
madmanwithanimpala
2. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 23 2014, 3:45 PM EDT | Post edited: May 23 2014, 3:45 PM EDT
That might be interesting. I feel like they might be focused more on Castiel and Dean's relationship now that Dean is a demon, due to all the really heavy-handed Destiel hints that occured in Season 9. Do you find this valuable?    
spnfanforever
spnfanforever
3. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 23 2014, 4:27 PM EDT | Post edited: May 23 2014, 4:29 PM EDT
Hey Madmanwithanimpala,

Welcome to the Wiki!

Thanks for posting - we all hope you enjoy being a member here and if you need any help, feel free to contact me or any of the other mods - you can find us under the Community tab near the top of the page...

I'm not sure what you mean about the "Destiel" hints - I don't think that's relevant or in fact true 'cause the Show doesn't really have those links - that's something that's explored in Fanfic shipping rather than being part of the Show itself.

I'm sure there will be a focus on Dean being a demon and Cas being an angel, but that will be part of the usual demon / angel strife, exacerbated 'cause Cas' best friend is now a demon, so lots to talk about!


SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
4. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 23 2014, 4:36 PM EDT | Post edited: May 23 2014, 4:36 PM EDT
"While it is a bit early for me to start being wrong about what might happen next year, I am interested in seeing how Sam and Dean interact. Will Dean reveal to Sam what has happened, or will Dean even still be in the bunker? Perhaps Crowley will take him away in the opener to keep him from Sam. I also think we won't see Cas until they are ready to reveal to Sam his brother is a demon, since Cas would obviously see Dean for what he has become. I do hope they hold off for at least a few episodes before they resolve Dean's plight, and I kinda hope they split up Sam and Dean for a episode or two. Perhaps they could do a Dean only episode for the opener and then follow it up with Sam's? That might be interesting. "
Hey VF,

Sorry for not getting back to you yesterday.

I agree with you - my first thought is that Crowley will take Dean away from the Bunker to try and consolidate his relationship with Dean before he sees Sam again. I can easily see they will split them up for a couple of episodes while Dean is getting used to being a demon, so your suggestion for a "Dean-only" episode at the start and then a "Sam-only" episode makes sense - I'm beginning to think this could be an interesting start to the Season as long as they don't drag it out too long.


SFF
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kate38
kate38
5. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 24 2014, 3:26 PM EDT | Post edited: May 24 2014, 3:26 PM EDT
Great discussion topic, as always, SFF :)

At this point, my BIGGEST hope for season 10 is that it won’t be the last one, and my biggest fear is that it might be. Whatever bend the story takes, I’d love to at least get 12 seasons before we have to say goodbye.

That said, I feel like these writers have put me through an emotional meat grinder this season, but I still trust them to treat the story well, so I’m sure that whatever happens in season 10 will be fascinating to watch. Even season 9 was well done – I just found it “stained” by the separation between the Boys and difficult to watch at times for that reason. For me, it reminded me of the "pall" that hung over season 3 because we were reminded in EVERY episode that Dean was going to die. So although there were some great episodes in season 3, it left me with a very sad feeling when I look back on it. Season 9 is starting to feel like that for me.

Looking forward, I’d like to see the Boys make some positive “gains” in season 10. It feels like they’ve repeatedly lost SO much season after season that I’m not sure there’s anything left to take away. They’ve lost their father; Bobby (which was like losing their father all over again); every friend, lover or ally they’ve ever had (except for Cas); their lives; their souls (Dean has arguably lost his soul, now); and finally in season 9 we saw them lose each other. I don’t think there’s anything left to strip away, so I’d like to see these characters “rebuilt” somewhat in season 10. Maybe that means new friends, new allies, women in their lives, more stability – I’m not sure. Having a home at the MOL bunker is a great start. I hope they get to continue living there and having access to all the resources there. But whatever happens I’m hoping for some brightness and reason for hope in their lives instead of more darkness, sadness and loss.

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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
6. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 24 2014, 6:00 PM EDT | Post edited: May 24 2014, 6:12 PM EDT
Thanks, Kate :)

And can I say, very well argued by you! :)

I have to say I feel the same as you, with the exception that I found Season 4 harder to bear than Season 3. Yes, the pall hung over Season 3 with Dean only having one year to live and it was incredibly sad but it was also funny and poignant and very sweet at times and when The Boys came back together properly after "Dream a Little Dream of Me" - one of my favorite episodes BTW - which you could argue foreshadowed Dean turning into a demon now, it was so heart-warming. The Finale was one of the best and Dan being savaged by a hellhound and Sam holding him at the end, well that was one of the saddest and most beautiful scenes I've ever seen - Season 3 for me is one of the best Seasons...

But Season 4, although I love it now, well I was angry at Sam for a long time for his duplicity and the way he treated Dean throughout almost the whole Season, which made it very hard to watch even though the episodes were very good generally. There wasn't the level of overt hostility which was present in Seasons 8 and 9 - it was much more subtle - but Sam acted in a superior manner and was dismissive of Dean throughout and in "Sex and Violence" and "When the Levee Breaks" especially, what he thought of Dean at the time when he was hyped up on demon blood, was revealed . So, I understand what you mean about Season 9 being "stained" for you...

It would be good to see The Boys make some "gains" in Season 10 to offset what they've lost but it's hard to see that happening in the first half while Dean is a demon - still, we can live in hope. Maybe things will improve later?

I do hope Sam will be protective of Dean for a change and really show his support for him while he's in his "demonic phase" and that he doesn't push Dean further into Crowley's ...Continued...


SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
7. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 24 2014, 6:02 PM EDT | Post edited: May 24 2014, 6:13 PM EDT
...Continued...

...corner. I hope the writers don't try and show Dean's and Crowley's relationship as in any way parallel to Sam's and Ruby's (minus the sex of course! :) - I don't want Dean to be lying to Sam and sloping off to Crowley as the only one who can understand what he's going through for example, and certainly for them not to be in league. I would like to see some hope and brightness to creep back in too and some fun for a change, and yes, even some female company, like in the "old days" :)


SFF
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kate38
kate38
8. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 24 2014, 7:43 PM EDT | Post edited: May 24 2014, 7:46 PM EDT
Hey, SFF!

Great points. You’re absolutely right about Sam’s behavior in season 4. It was hard to bear, but I could sort of forgive him at the time because I convinced myself it was the addict talking and not the real Sam – plus the fact that he admitted in Season 5 that he was aware of being angry all the time since childhood for no reason (which I think was attributed to the demon blood Azazel gave him as an infant). However, Sam’s cruelty in season 9 was just plain Sam, so to me it’s harder to excuse or explain away. It probably also means that hostility was there the entire time, but it just festered into what we saw in season 9.

I agree with you that I’d like to see Sam continue to mature and become more protective of Dean – especially now while Dean is vulnerable. As I’ve said in earlier posts, I think it’s Sam’s JOB to save his brother – not Castiel’s or anyone else’s. I’d like to see him step up and embrace that responsibility, because it will give him a taste of the burden Dean has been carrying admirably since they were both boys.

Along those same lines, I think you’re right that Crowley will try to keep demon-Dean very close to him, but I think Dean will be reluctant to keep any huge secrets from Sam -- unless he's not in control enough as a demon to understand why he shouldn't. I just read that Mark Sheppard has been promoted from a guest star to a regular, so that means he’ll probably have a greater role in the progression of this story. I’d LOVE for Sam to be the one who intervenes to keep Crowley away from Dean, but I think Cas will be the one. Sam will likely perform the purification ritual to cure Dean’s demon-ness, but I think Cas will not stand for Dean getting any closer to Crowley and will have a big role in protecting Dean from him. That’s not scientific at all – just my gut feeling.
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
9. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 4:24 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:42 AM EDT
Hey Kate,

Thanks!

Yes, I agree, a lot of what Sam was saying and thinking was from the demon blood inside him, but I don't think that was all of it, not by a long way. There's always been that resentful side of Sam where he wanted to prove himself better than Dean - the typical competition from a younger brother, possibly - but I think it was a lot more than that. He's often been dismissive of Dean throughout the Seasons and likes to show he's more intelligent and more computer-savvy, better at finding out the secrets of the lore and understanding it and even when he wasn't drinking demon blood in the early to mid-part of Season 4 that was still there.

Of course I agree, Sam was downright cruel in Season 9 and Dean did not deserve that, in any way. That does lend creedence to the idea that the hostility was there for a long time and just festered into the eruption after Sam found out that he'd been tricked by Dean so that Gadreel could possess him. Sam was still going on about it in the Finale, even when Dean was trying to offer an olive branch (again) before he left to face Metatron. Ahhh, it is upsetting to think about all that and I wish Sam had told Dean he was sorry before he left - well, before Dean punched him out! :) That's not to say that Sam doesn't love Dean - I'm sure he does - but he wounds Dean so many times and never really apologizes and he takes all Dean's love and protection for granted so I think it IS more than time he steps up to the plate and really show Dean he cares and looks after him for once.

Ever since Sam went to look for Dean and Bobby at the end of Season 6 I'm struggling recall any occasions when he's actively shown that level of care and responsibility towards Dean, until his emotional response at the end of this Finale. It would be good if he could feel just a little something of the burden Dean has ...Cont...

SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
10. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 4:40 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:46 AM EDT
...Continued...

... carried since he was just four.

I agree it should be Sam who tries to save Dean - if for no other reasons than what we've just said, that it's time to give something back to his older brother - but I would still want Cas to be a big part of that. They are "Team Free Will" and should work together to help Dean.

What does concern me is that while I understand and accept the need for Demon-Dean to be a big part of next Season, it does provoke a lot of worry as to WHY it takes so long to cure Dean. Allied with Crowley as a regular next year, I'm wondering if Dean will end up with Crowley a lot more than I'd like to see? It will be very interesting to see how their relationship unfolds now - whether Dean is in fact any different as a demon - and their banter is always a joy and it might be very funny to see both Sam and Cas jealous of any friendship between Dean and Crowley but also it could be quite horrible if it's handled wrongly. We're in the lap of the writers...

Maybe it will take longer to cure Dean 'cause the normal "demon purification" ritual won't work on him - after all, he's become a demon by a different, almost unique route - so the usual rules mightn't apply. I hope it's that and not 'cause Crowley beguiles him away. I can't see Dean listening to Crowley and excluding or lying to Sam as happened in reverse in Season 4 - please, don't parallel that!! - But you never know...


SFF
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kate38
kate38
11. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 7:04 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 8:34 AM EDT
I’ll have to think about it really hard, but you’re probably right that we haven’t seen Sam extend the same level of love and concern that Dean has always shown him. I'm sure Sam does love Dean in his own way. He certainly saves Dean when he's in danger or under attack, and I detected panic when he saw Dean get stabbed, but as we've discussed before, fear of loss isn't love. I question whether Sam is capable of more than what we've seen from him, since he’s never HAD to be there for someone else to the same extent that Dean has. I remember reading an excerpt from John Winchester’s journal that talks about what happened to them after Mary died. Dean refused to leave Sam’s side and wouldn’t even go to sleep unless Sam was right there and he knew Sam was safe. John even wrote that Dean would crawl into the baby’s crib and sleep next to him to keep him safe. He also refused to talk at all for weeks until John took them to see the psychic, Missouri. When I think about that and what it means for a 4-year-old to have that level of maturity and that capacity for love – well, I just think it says a great deal about Dean’s character and his capacity for love. He seems literally hard-wired to protect his brother above all else. It’s so extraordinary that I don’t think Sam could ever approach that, but it would be really nice to see Sam treat his brother better and try in his own way to take better care of him.

As far as the delay in curing Dean, I think they have to find Cain and get him to remove the Mark before they can cure Dean. If Dean isn’t a demon, the Mark will kill him anyway so I foresee them sending Crowley on a mission to find Cain, which could take a while if he doesn’t want to be found. And while Crowley is off on his search, the writers get to play around with demon-Dean and we all get to see what kind of person he will be.



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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
12. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 8:24 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 8:24 AM EDT
Hey Kate,

Well, I think the whole Show, while it's mostly from Sam's POV is based on Dean's love for and loyalty for his younger brother and his concept of "family" but that Sam, while he does love Dean, has never felt that attachment in the same way. He always wanted to be independent and live a normal life, whereas Dean has always been shackled by those familial bonds. Dean implied more than once that he wished he could have done what Sam did and get out from Hunting and the responsibility but he just couldn't - it was hard-wired into him to look after his Dad and his brother - but he never felt jealous of Sam; he always admired him for standing up to John and striking out on his own.

What you're saying about John's journal chimes in with what Dean said in "Dead in the Water", when he meets that kid whose Dad was taken away and drowned by a ghost in the water. He couldn't speak and Dean knew what he'd gone through from his own experience of losing his Mom and in fact he was able to bring the boy back and get him to speak again.

You can see the difference between them throughout the Seasons: for example Season 1 for me was mostly about Sam being reluctant to keep chasing their Dad and wanting to find Jessica's killer and he ran away and left Dean and he did that in Season 2 also, this time when he was chasing the kids with psychic abilities. So Sam was always pulling away from Dean and Dean would have to track him down. That pattern has been repeated a number of times and even when Sam doesn't go away, he often talks about starting a new life and implicitly leaving Dean behind...

Yes, I agree - Dean's capacity for love is extraordinary. Obviously it's Sam who benefits the most but he also shows that concern for all his family, which was extended to include Bobby, Cas, Garth, Kevin, Ellen and Jo at least... Continued...


SFF
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kate38
kate38
13. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 8:29 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 8:29 AM EDT
"
Ever since Sam went to look for Dean and Bobby at the end of Season 6 I'm struggling recall any occasions when he's actively shown that level of care and responsibility towards Dean, until his emotional response at the end of this Finale. It would be good if he could feel just a little something of the burden Dean has ...Cont...

SFF"
I think you're right, SFF. All the examples of Sam dong something extraordinary where Dean is concerned are before season 4.
Like in season 2 (Faith) when Dean was dying and Sam tricked him into going to a faith healer, or in season 3 (Mystery Spot) when the trickster had killed Dean and Sam dropped everything else to track the trickster down and convince him to bring Dean back. I think those actions were very Dean-like. So was season 4 when Dean dies -- Sam tried to make a crossroads deal to bring Dean back. I think all those examples show that Sam is capable of a greater level of devotion than he normally shows. What do you think?

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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
14. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 8:37 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 8:37 AM EDT
...Continued...

I mean, Dean was the one who said to Sam they'd have to take the African Dream Root to go inside Bobby's dream to try and save him from the psycho-killer who was hunting Bobby - Sam baulked at that as he said it would be too dangerous but Dean persuaded him to do it, saying, "Dude, it's Bobby!"

I don't think Sam could ever approach that level of constant love but I do think he could try harder and not be so selfish - maybe use that empathy he expresses for other people on Dean himself and show him he cares more often than he has recently.

I agree, "curing" Dean is pointless while he has the Mark 'cause he'll either have to keep killing or he'll die anyway if he's human and then become a demon again but Cain may not want the Mark back - he wants Dean to kill him and Crowley may want Dean to remain a demon. Ah well, I guess the writers have figured that out...


SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
15. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 8:47 AM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:10 PM EDT
"I think you're right, SFF. All the examples of Sam dong something extraordinary where Dean is concerned are before season 4.
Like in season 2 (Faith) when Dean was dying and Sam tricked him into going to a faith healer, or in season 3 (Mystery Spot) when the trickster had killed Dean and Sam dropped everything else to track the trickster down and convince him to bring Dean back. I think those actions were very Dean-like. So was season 4 when Dean dies -- Sam tried to make a crossroads deal to bring Dean back. I think all those examples show that Sam is capable of a greater level of devotion than he normally shows. What do you think?

"
Hey Kate,

I agree. Contrast that with the end of Season 7 when Sam goes AWOL after Dean disappears and doesn't even look for him and abandons Kevin as well. Perhaps more tellingly, Sam can't even understand why Dean is so mad and upset with him that he "dropped off the grid" and didn't look for him or Kevin at all and he thinks the explanation that he "lost it" is sufficient and that Dean should understand everything from that.

And even though Sam did show in earlier Seasons how much he'd risk for Dean, it still doesn't nearly match up to what Dean's done for him.


SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
16. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 4:09 PM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:11 PM EDT
I've just had a thought - what if Dean doesn't want to be turned back to a human 'cause he thinks he deserves to be a demon? - After all, he felt he shouldn't be saved in Season 3 and Cas looked inside him and said he didn't want to be saved in Season 4 so after everything that's happened recently, with Sam and Gadreel and Kevin dying, maybe Dean will think this is the way it should be, that he deserves to be a demon? - Just my thoughts...


SFF
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kate38
kate38
17. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 4:26 PM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:26 PM EDT
"I've just had a thought - what if Dean doesn't want to be turned back to a human 'cause he thinks he deserves to be a demon? - After all, he felt he shouldn't be saved in Season 3 and Cas looked inside him and said he didn't want to be saved in Season 4 so after everything that's happened recently, with Sam and Gadreel and Kevin dying, maybe Dean will think this is the way it should be, that he deserves to be a demon? - Just my thoughts...


SFF"
That would be very interesting! And it might also explain why it will take until the mid-season break to deal with Dean. If he takes off with Crowley and this turns into a chase, then Sam/Cas have to catch up with Dean and convince him that he deserves to be saved. That could get tricky...but I like the idea of Sam pursuing Dean and fighting for him; that's a nice switch.
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kate38
kate38
18. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 4:28 PM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:28 PM EDT
Hey,
I just read an interview with Jared and he said Dean's situation will be recognized in the season premiere. He also said the premiere would be the most brutal one so far. What did we say about it being a long summer????
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
19. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
May 25 2014, 4:36 PM EDT | Post edited: May 25 2014, 4:36 PM EDT
"Hey,
I just read an interview with Jared and he said Dean's situation will be recognized in the season premiere. He also said the premiere would be the most brutal one so far. What did we say about it being a long summer????"
Hey, Kate,

Well, the brutal one fits in with Dean thinking he should be a demon and then rejecting Sam and Cas 'cause he thinks that is what he should be and he takes off with Crowley... Not that I think Dean would do it in any way to do bad things, I just think he'll try and spare the people he loves from trying to save him 'cause he'll think he's a lost cause...

God, this is even worse than I thought!! It won't be a long summer, it'll be a freakin' long winter!!


SFF
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