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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
40. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 3 2014, 2:37 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 3 2014, 2:40 AM EDT
"WOW, SFF, very very good points and I humbly retract my flawed thought. You are like the SPN Yoda! Awesome. I will keep watching S5 and not think too hard how it might connect anymore. "
Hey PnP,

"Spn Yoda" - thanks - I think! - I'll take it as a compliment anyway! :)

I don't think your thought necessarily has to be flawed - the writers could put another spin on it over the summer and present something new for us to get our teeth in - I was just commenting on what we know now and my thoughts on it. :)

- It's great to talk about it here though - I enjoy our discussion, thanks!

SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
41. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 3 2014, 5:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 3 2014, 5:04 AM EDT
Hey,

I read a couple of recent interviews with some of the main cast and they were talking about Dean being a "disciple" of Crowley - which fits in with what we saw at the end of the Finale and with Mark Sheppard being a regular cast member and having a bigger role in Season 10 - and Jensen saying he trusted the writers to keep something of Dean still there and the difficulty of showing that externally (presumably if it's hidden deep down) so I think we may be in for a rough ride next Season.

And Cas' slowly dissolving grace also seems to be a big thing next Season and we're not done with Metatron yet, apparently (as we also surmised). Seems like there'll be heartache there before it's sorted too...


SFF
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
42. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 3 2014, 9:47 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 3 2014, 9:47 AM EDT
Hey SFF,
OF COURSE, SPN YODA is a compliment!! At least I meant it as such! Your knowledge of all things SPN is so deep, I marvel at it. Hence the Yoda reference - he is awesome and wise
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
43. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 3 2014, 9:55 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 3 2014, 9:55 AM EDT
"Hey SFF,
OF COURSE, SPN YODA is a compliment!! At least I meant it as such! Your knowledge of all things SPN is so deep, I marvel at it. Hence the Yoda reference - he is awesome and wise "
Hey PnP,

Yeah I got it! :)

- Double thanks!! Haha!

I think you know a heck of a lot about Supernatural too and you have a good insight so it's awesome discussing our Show with ya! :)

SFF
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mstarch59
mstarch59
44. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 13 2014, 5:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 13 2014, 5:31 PM EDT
As far as the opener goes I have 2 ideas:

A) Some kind of showdown between Crowley and Sam fighting over Dean takes place ending with Dean siding with Crowley. In this case I could see Dean being malicious enough to use Sam's own words against him ("not being brothers," "I wouldn't save you," "I don't trust you" etc.) as a shot in the heart before walking out on him.

B) A showdown with Sam and Crowley taking place fighting over Dean, only with Crowley letting Sam keep Dean. In this case I could see Dean trying to get back to business as usual while adjusting to being a demon, but it's too much to handle and it doesn't work out so he leaves to work with Crowley hoping he could help him, but of course Crowley has other plans for Dean.

I've had another thought cross my mind as to how Sam would go about rescuing Dean throughout the season. Sam might consider completing the spell to heal a demon and of course we know that's not going to be easy because Dean probably won't want to be saved. But healing a demon still Sam since it was the last demon trial or is that all null and void since he let it go at the end of season 8?

Whatever the case I'm excited and I'm sure we're in for a crazy ride.
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
45. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 14 2014, 1:55 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 14 2014, 1:57 AM EDT
Hey Mstarch,

Interesting ideas!

I don't think Dean would use those words lightly against Sam, not after he said, "I'm proud of us" just before he died but if Sam provoked him by pushing him away again, I guess he might. I think it's more likely the "demon part" of Dean would use those words against Sam - demons often lie or twist the truth to hurt people and Dean must still be hurting underneath it all after everything Sam has said over the year even though he was obviously trying to reconcile with his brother at the end...

We don't know whether Crowley will have some hold over Dean but I find it hard to see how Dean would ever side with Crowley willingly. Crowley may be able to bend Dean to his view but I tend to think that will be by trickery rather than force as Dean is probably going to be a very powerful demon now. Likewise I don't see Crowley "letting" Sam keep Dean. I like to think it will be up to Dean to do what he wants but I agree, he might go off with Crowley for a while, for example if he thinks he's dangerous to Sam or Cas...

Interesting point about the Trials - have they just been suspended and will curing a demon re-initiate them? Dean seemed to think not 'cause when he was pleading with Sam not to go through with the third trial he said they didn't have to close the Gates of Hell, they could save people by curing demons now - or maybe he meant he would have to do the curing ritual, not Sam? For the first two, Sam had to perform a ritual after the trial was completed so maybe they can just cure demons as long as they don't complete the ritual for the Trials?

...Continued...


SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
46. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 14 2014, 1:56 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 14 2014, 1:58 AM EDT
...Continued...

I've thought for a while it won't be as simple as performing the "curing ritual" for Dean - maybe if Sam would end up putting his own life on the line for Dean then that would be a reason why Dean would refuse to be cured - that and the fact he probably thinks he deserves to be damned. 'Course, they still have to remove the curse of the Mark of Cain before Dean can be cured so that might be why it will take some time, and it might be like Season 3 when Dean refused to consider helping himself avoid going to Hell as he felt so worthless until after "Dream a Little Dream of Me".

Yeah, I agree; I'm sure we're in for a crazy ride!

Good talk!


SFF
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trish2323
47. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 16 2014, 11:22 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 16 2014, 11:22 AM EDT

Everyone is forgetting that this is not really Dean. Dean is dead. This Demon/Dean has Dean's meat-suit, but where Dean's soul is... nobody knows. I hope the show makes it clear that this is really not Dean, it would make watching this farce much more tolerable for me. I couldn't watch season six because of soulless Sam, I don't know if I will be able to watch a demon in Dean's skin either. We had not Sam, now we have not Dean. I thought this was suppose to be about two brothers fighting evil because of what happened to their Mom. Not one brother an an evil or soulless duplicate. I want to see both brothers present, together, fighting evil, and let's get that chemistry back too. Just my opinion.
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
48. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 16 2014, 1:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 16 2014, 2:03 PM EDT
"
Everyone is forgetting that this is not really Dean. Dean is dead. This Demon/Dean has Dean's meat-suit, but where Dean's soul is... nobody knows. I hope the show makes it clear that this is really not Dean, it would make watching this farce much more tolerable for me. I couldn't watch season six because of soulless Sam, I don't know if I will be able to watch a demon in Dean's skin either. We had not Sam, now we have not Dean. I thought this was suppose to be about two brothers fighting evil because of what happened to their Mom. Not one brother an an evil or soulless duplicate. I want to see both brothers present, together, fighting evil, and let's get that chemistry back too. Just my opinion."
Hey Trish,

Welcome to the Wiki!

We hope you enjoy posting here and it's good to have different points of view...

But I have to say I disagree with you. We have a different idea of "duplicate" I think. It IS supposed to be Dean as far as I'm aware. Yes, he's dead but this is his soul inhabiting his own body. I don't really understand why you think it isn't? Crowley made it clear Cain was brought back by the Mark and then he became a demon and the same thing has happened now to Dean - otherwise if it was another demon why would Crowley call Dean by name and tell him to feel his "new kinda life"?
- Dean's soul hasn't gone somewhere else; it's still here I believe. Yes, it isn't the Dean we all know and love but I think there must be something of the old Dean still there - at least I'm hoping so - even if he has now been demonized by the Mark of Cain...

It isn't the same situation as "soulless Sam" IMO. And Supernatural is still trying to be fresh and new after nine Seasons so it gets my vote for keeping on surprising us. I don't want Dean to be a demon - anything but! - But ...Continued...

SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
49. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 16 2014, 1:20 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 16 2014, 2:08 PM EDT
...Continued...

I'm prepared to wait and see what happens and not pre-judge it too much.

I think it will be pretty obvious straightaway how much of the "old Dean" is still there so I don't think we'll get confused - we don't need beating around the head by the writers to tell even small differences with Dean :) But if you mean it will be less painful if he is obviously so far removed from the Dean we know, I don't think that will make it any easier for me - just seeing Dean and how much he has changed will be just as bad...

I agree with you about getting that chemistry back - that is so important and we've had little enough of that lately in Seasons 8 and 9...

I am confident Jensen will find ways to express himself as the "real Dean" and if it gives him more options to show his versatility then it may not all be bad news... In fact Season 10 could be all the better for it.

I suppose I'm saying trust the writers and don't give up. Supernatural has never been farcical and isn't now, IMO. I still think it's the most wonderful Show and I thought Season 6 was a fine season for a number of reasons, including "soulless Sam" - for me that fitted in so well with the aftermath of Season 5 and Cas' descent into evil through his "good intentions"...

I still think the Brothers' relationship and fighting evil is still and always has been at the heart of Supernatural, which is why I love it so so much and always will...


SFF
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kate38
kate38
50. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 16 2014, 1:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 16 2014, 1:30 PM EDT
I agree with some of what you said, Trish. I REALLY miss the brothers’ togetherness, and the gulf between them made season 9 very difficult for me to watch. Their love and togetherness is what MAKES the show and I felt robbed that I waited all through season 9 for them to get back together and it didn’t happen until the very end – just in time for Dean to die and be “demonified”. However, I’m not convinced about Dean not being “Dean”. The writers haven’t made it clear exactly what he is, so I suspect there will be debate all summer long about what/who Dean really is now.

I think Dean still has his soul, but it has been corrupted by the Mark and Blade. This is different from a demonic possession, and it will also be different from Sam not having a soul at all. That’s why the show did this – they’re taking us and these characters to a place we’ve never been before. As much as I hate seeing Dean this way, if the writers handle it well it might not be all that bad. He’ll have special powers for the first time in his life and the writers could find a way to inject humor into this painful situation if they are talented enough. For what it’s worth, Jensen has said in interviews that he can always find Dean in any situation and the writers have told him that he will be able to “be” Dean. Everything else remains to be seen, but I think I still trust these writers enough to let them tell the story the way they want to. And I definitely trust Jensen enough to make the best of this situation and continue to be the amazing actor we know he is :)

Anyway, I agree with you that the relationship between the Winchesters needs to get a lot better very quickly in season 10 and we need that chemistry back. I hope these writers can do that -- PRONTO.

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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
51. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jun 25 2014, 3:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2014, 3:39 PM EDT
Kate,

Loved your eloquence on this... And I agree with pretty much all of what you say...

I especially think Dean still has his own soul and any 'corruption' can and will be fixed but I think it will be a demonic possession of sorts, although I agree it will be very different from "Soulless Sam"...

Jensen will ALWAYS find Dean and yeah, the Brothers' relationship needs to be stabilized early in Season 10, regardless of Dean being a demon...

I agree with ya, Trish and Kate too, that I want to see both brothers together in sync, fighting evil, 'cause that's what the Show is all about...


SFF
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ncsupnatfan
ncsupnatfan
52. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 3 2014, 8:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 3 2014, 8:37 PM EDT
Hello Everyone,
What interesting and amazing thoughts, comments and ideas about what s10 will be like. I've been away for a few weeks doing other things and I missed out on all this discussion. Everyone has brought up some valid points and great ideas as far as what might happen.
I do agree there has to be some Dean still there, if not, what is there for Sam to want to save? I think there will be an internal fight that Dean will have to deal with between demon and human Dean. Yes I agree in will need to be Sam who finds a way to bring him back.
I do hope Cain is in a few episodes too, really liked his character. I think he may play a big role in making Dean human again.

I wonder if there could be something on the demon tablet that would help, but that would mean having a prophet to read it, could Kevin visit since he's stuck here? I really think it will be something that we've not seen before, I don't think they will use the same cure a demon thing for this. Could it be they have to try and talk to Lucifer or even Death to get help with this?

Death has said he is older than God and would reap God one day, so maybe he knows what needs to be done.

I also agree they didn't devote enough to the guys making amends, it just wasn't enough after what happened in s9. There's got to be more to it.

So all I can say is everyone did a good job with their ideas of what is to come. So who is counting the days or do we start with months first?

NC
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
53. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 4 2014, 2:08 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2014, 2:09 AM EDT
"Hello Everyone,
What interesting and amazing thoughts, comments and ideas about what s10 will be like. I've been away for a few weeks doing other things and I missed out on all this discussion. Everyone has brought up some valid points and great ideas as far as what might happen.
I do agree there has to be some Dean still there, if not, what is there for Sam to want to save? I think there will be an internal fight that Dean will have to deal with between demon and human Dean. Yes I agree in will need to be Sam who finds a way to bring him back.
I do hope Cain is in a few episodes too, really liked his character. I think he may play a big role in making Dean human again.

I wonder if there could be something on the demon tablet that would help, but that would mean having a prophet to read it, could Kevin visit since he's stuck here? I really think it will be something that we've not seen before, I don't think they will use the same cure a demon thing for this. Could it be they have to try and talk to Lucifer or even Death to get help with this?

Death has said he is older than God and would reap God one day, so maybe he knows what needs to be done.

I also agree they didn't devote enough to the guys making amends, it just wasn't enough after what happened in s9. There's got to be more to it.

So all I can say is everyone did a good job with their ideas of what is to come. So who is counting the days or do we start with months first?

NC"
Hey NC,

Thanks! - And good thoughts... I'll get back to them later...

I'll be starting a countdown on the Home Page when it gets down to a month or so lol!


SFF

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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
54. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 4 2014, 5:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2014, 5:04 AM EDT
Hey NC,

I think that's what Kate and I and others have been arguing, that there has to be some of Dean there to save, otherwise what's the point indeed? I don't think Dean's soul can be elsewhere. I think it has to be there in Dean's body, even if it is demonized to some extent and I think there will be an internal and maybe even an external conflict with the two different sides of Dean's soul warring with each other.

I agree, I just don't see the 'demon-curing' ritual being used to make Dean human again. I think they will go for something else this time, partly because it's been done before but also 'cause this IS a new type of demonization as it's been caused by the Mark of Cain and not by a soul being twisted in Hell, but whether that solution involves Death - I'd love to see him but I'm not sure how they could bring him to the party - or the Demon Tablet or something else, I just don't know, although I am thinking on it now...

Yeah, I think Sam should be involved in saving Dean but I'd also like to see Cas helping and most importantly as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to see Dean is strong enough to help himself too. I don't want Dean to feel he is so weak that he can't even help to save himself 'cause I think that would be detrimental to his own self-worth. When he started torturing souls in Hell and opened the First Seal inadvertently, that was a massive blow to his self-esteem, especially when Alastair told him his Daddy lasted for a hundred years without breaking. Dean doesn't need any more adverse comparisons or to be saved without having his own strength to make the whole demon purification process work... Continued...


SFF
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
55. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 4 2014, 5:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 4 2014, 5:43 AM EDT
...Continued...

...I think Cain must be in the new season as he will have to remove the Mark of Cain or at least help Dean to get rid of it, otherwise any demon cure is meaningless. I hope they have the same actor to play him (Tim Omundsen) as he was great.

Good point about Lucifer - they might need his 'advice' on the Mark as he was the one who gave it to Cain in the first place but I really can't see how that could be done. Dean - the real Dean I mean - would never risk the possibility of setting Lucifer free to save himself (although he did try and find out how to open the Cage to free Sammy) and I don't think Sam would either... Although if he feels guilty / desperate enough about Dean and his part in Dean's downfall he just might consider it if he found what he thought was a fool-proof way to get the information he needs to save Dean yet keep Lucifer caged... That would show that what he said to Dean in Season 9 about not doing what he'd do in the same circumstances wasn't true at all... But very, very risky though to have even the absolutely remotest chance of Lucifer being free in the world again!! We'd potentially be back to the Apocalypse scenario again and I know people have mentioned that as a way to round off Season 10 but I can't quite buy it... And just talking to Lucifer involved a huge blood sacrifice of innocents the last time it happened so that's a no-go area too IMO...

And yeah, there has to be much more to The Boys getting back on track with each other. I would like Sam to tell Dean how much he means to him and that they are still and always will be brothers...


SFF
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ncsupnatfan
ncsupnatfan
56. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 5 2014, 10:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 5 2014, 10:09 PM EDT
Hey SFF,
Agree with you, I just thought, they can't really make Dean too dark or do really bad things like killing innocent and then make him human again, he would not be able to live with himself if they did that. There would be too much guilt there for him to handle.

Maybe Metatron has the answer and if he is freed he will help Dean?? You know he's going to still do something since his is still alive. His part is not up yet.

NC
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spnfanforever
spnfanforever
57. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 6 2014, 5:37 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 6 2014, 5:39 AM EDT
"Hey SFF,
Agree with you, I just thought, they can't really make Dean too dark or do really bad things like killing innocent and then make him human again, he would not be able to live with himself if they did that. There would be too much guilt there for him to handle.

Maybe Metatron has the answer and if he is freed he will help Dean?? You know he's going to still do something since his is still alive. His part is not up yet.

NC"
Hey NC,

Well, we totally agree on not making Dean do anything bad - the guilt afterwards would kill him. It's different than when Sam was demon-possessed and killed a Hunter and then angel-possessed and killed Kevin; it's even different from "Soulless Sam" who killed innocents on the way to kill monsters. This time, it would be part of Dean - admittedly the part that's been twisted by the Mark of Cain - doing the bad things and he wouldn't be able to forgive himself or move past that - ever, IMO. Sam can compartmentalize things, forgive himself and move on but not Dean.

Besides, I feel it would be just wrong to make Dean evil...

Metatron has a lot of knowledge. Maybe he will try and bargain his way out of jail in return for helping Dean but Cas would have a hard time allowing that. I'm sure he would want to help Dean above anyone but freeing Metatron might be a step too far and even if he agreed, the other angels probably wouldn't.

I still think Cain has a major role in this somehow but who knows?


SFF
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PigNaPoke
PigNaPoke
58. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 10 2014, 10:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 10 2014, 10:07 AM EDT
Did you all see the S10 description released this week? "Season 10 begins with Sam’s frantic search for his missing brother, who is gone without a trace. The road to recovering the wayward Dean, takes Sam down dark paths, with consequences that will shake the boys to their core. Meanwhile, Castiel has to pick up the pieces in the aftermath of Metatron’s campaign. With his grace failing and rogue angels still on the loose, Cass will face the ticking clock of his own mortality as all-new threats emerge to once again push all of our heroes to their limits." Seems that we will not have an immediate confrontation between the boys, with Sam "searching" for Dean. He will probably be totally in the dark about Demon Dean at first! BUT it also says "on the road to recovery", so I chose to see that as confirmation that we'll get "real Dean:" back. 89 Days to go!! Do you find this valuable?    
kate38
kate38
59. RE: Discuss your hopes and fears for the Season 10 Opener here!
Jul 10 2014, 10:22 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 10 2014, 10:22 AM EDT
"Did you all see the S10 description released this week? "Season 10 begins with Sam’s frantic search for his missing brother, who is gone without a trace. The road to recovering the wayward Dean, takes Sam down dark paths, with consequences that will shake the boys to their core. Meanwhile, Castiel has to pick up the pieces in the aftermath of Metatron’s campaign. With his grace failing and rogue angels still on the loose, Cass will face the ticking clock of his own mortality as all-new threats emerge to once again push all of our heroes to their limits." Seems that we will not have an immediate confrontation between the boys, with Sam "searching" for Dean. He will probably be totally in the dark about Demon Dean at first! BUT it also says "on the road to recovery", so I chose to see that as confirmation that we'll get "real Dean:" back. 89 Days to go!!"
Ugh!! 89 more days -- just kill me now.
Jared mentioned at a recent convention that he would like the story to evolve as you described -- he finds Dean missing and goes on a search to find him; sort of like when the boys were searching for their dad. I hope it doesn't take anywhere near THAT long to resolve Dean' situation, though.

By the way, good to hear from you, PNP!

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