Home Forums Supernatural Fan Wiki Community Let’s all talk about Inherit the Earth (S15 E19)

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    • #3328 Reply

      Oh boy – deep breaths – it’s getting down to the last two and they’ve advertised this one as the wrap-up to this season. I can’t guess anymore how they will resolve the God issue; there have been so many misdirects. I’ll be watching. I love that Adam/Michael will be there (his episode was my favorite this season). I like that this seems to have been a pared-down cast due to covid and tend to think that will be more effective. I don’t know how they’ll end this season though – so super nervous about that. Bring on the comments!!!!!

    • #3392 Reply
      Shannon
      Guest

      I theorize that Chuck and Amara did create a better world. All those who disappeared, including Becky and her family, have been placed in it.

      • #3395 Reply
        PigNaPoke
        Participant

        Hi Shannon,
        I like that idea! That could have worked. Alas….not what the writers had in mind, huh?

        What do you think now?

        PNP

        • #3411 Reply
          Shannon
          Guest

          I have not watched it. From what I have heard, it would be very unwise to do so. It seems there is a very sick mind running this show. Fortunately, childish and shallow enough to do no real harm. A good show has been destroyed with intent. The brothers neutered and put in their place, first by God the cruel writer, then by God the three year old.

          • #3420 Reply
            kate38
            Keymaster

            “It seems there is a very sick mind running this show. Fortunately, childish and shallow enough to do no real harm. A good show has been destroyed with intent. The brothers neutered and put in their place, first by God the cruel writer, then by God the three year old.”

            Hi, Shannon —

            You’re not wrong. It does feel like the Winchesters have once again taken a back seat to the other characters. In this episode, their main role was to be beaten into putty so Jack could Hoover more energy from Chuck. Sigh…

            Chuck is still on the board, though. And Jack has no idea what to do with all the power he has — which makes him a perfect candidate to be corrupted by it. I’m hoping that the reason they wrapped this part of the story up this week is so that next week can be more about the brothers.

            kate

    • #3393 Reply
      kate38
      Keymaster

      This is disjointed, but here goes…

      Sorry, but that was weird and stupid. Jack being the new “god” is just stupid. And are we supposed to believe that Chuck is just gonna let that slide? Chuck may not have Jack’s powers, but he’s smarter than Jack and more resourceful. Maybe I’m in denial, but I don’t think this is over. If there are no perils left, then what’s the point? For all those folks who wanted the Winchesters to die in a blaze of glory, who’s around to kill them now?

      Question: Once Betty was the new Death, shouldn’t Lucifer have needed the scythe to kill her? He just snapped his fingers. Did I miss something?

      Also, I’m assuming that since all the world’s people are back, that Jody, Donna, Bobby and the other hunters are, too. I get that the show couldn’t bring all those actors into the episode because of COVID, but it would’ve been a nice resolution to at least hear somehow that all those people are okay.

      I did like a few things about this one:
      Unpopular opinion, but I like Lucifer and didn’t mind seeing him back – even if only for a few scenes.

      I’m glad they didn’t spend a lot of time dissecting what happened between Dean and Cas in the last episode. That would’ve just been awkward and would’ve made the episode even weirder.

      Since they went to all the effort of bringing Michael and Adam back, I’m glad that their story got resolved.

      It’s good that the Winchesters feel “in charge” of their own stories and their own future. That’s been a recurring theme since last season, so it feels important to resolve it.

      I’m glad they didn’t kill Chuck. It’s bad enough that theology has been so badly battered this season, and a toddler is the new “benevolent” god. But actually killing god would’ve been over the top. I’m glad that somebody in the writer’s room still has the ability to be logical.

      Anyway, I had LOW expectations for this one, and I have even LOWER expectations for next week. Like Chuck said, endings are hard, and there’s no way everybody is going to be happy. I feel so disconnected from what this show has become, though. Hopefully somebody out there will get the ending they want.

      kate

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by kate38.
    • #3396 Reply

      Going to write this before I read comments. My main feeling at the end of tonight’s was “okay, that did not suck”. Now, I am grading it on a not-so-great-season-15 curve and considering it was written by Brad & Eugenie when I say that.

      I did not like:

      The appearance of Lucifer (and teasing Cas fans right before). The final TRUE end of Lucifer and Michael in one episode felt crammed in. (But damn do I love Jake Abel’s acting!!!).

      That I did not FEEL this. It definitely kept my interest the whole way – MUCH more than last week – but it did not make me feel. I cried back when Metatron killed Dean, felt euphoric when Dean killed Zachariah – I felt no strong emotions here.

      Sam and Dean did not hug when they reunited at the start.

      I hated the use of Running on Empty when they WON and it should have been MUCH more kick ass like Back in Black.

      I and many others long ago predicted that Jack would become God. So that was almost expected.

      The montages of locations around the world being repopulated were too long.

      The fight scene with Chuck and Chuck repeating the same lines over and over (“guys, give up”) went on way too long.

      The flashbacks explanation of everything we just saw AND UNDERSTOOD was insulting. Aside from explaining that Jack was acting as a cosmic energy Hoover all along.

      The names on the table should stay only initials! J.K. and I think it would have been pretty touching if they’d made Cas a Winchester and carved C.W. (bonus network name reference!)

      Very much disliked the time filler montage parade of characters which I guess was to illustrate “all we’ve lost” but it would have been more effective to me if they’d ended with the toast in the bunker and maybe the shots of them driving in the Impala.

      I liked:

      That they won.

      That they outsmarted God and all the archangels.

      That Dean got himself a beer at the bar when they were the only humans on earth.

      That they laughed at God’s plan.

      That Jared and Jensen were not at all shaky in the roles after a 6 month hiatus.

      That the bunker survived.

      That Jack has a good heart and basically said our godliness resides in ourselves.

    • #3400 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Hi Y’all,

      hhhmmm, I didn’t think it sucked, but I would have liked a straighter approach to the storyline better.

      For example (Sorry, kate, but) I absolutely didn’t need or want Lucifer back. That overcomplicated the limited time we had tonight and sidetracked us for no good purpose. I am sure they could have come up with another way to get archangel power for Jack than in the “battle” between Lucifer and Michael – which btw wasn’t a battle to me and pretty lame. (I agree kate that Lucifer shouldn’t have been able to kill Death with a snap of his fingers!)

      I agree, kate, I was VERY happy they let the “Destiel or not-Destiel” thing lie and left it at what happened last week without further analysis.

      I did not like the lack luster reunion of the brothers!!! I REALLY needed a tight bro hug there. And with as close as they were sitting otherwise, I can believe that was a covid measure?

      All in all I felt a little detached from the episode. I found parts interesting and parts unnecessary, but none of it caused very deep emotion in me.

      I was MOST upset when Sam and Dean got beaten so badly by Chuck in the end!!! But then I loved the idea that they willingly sacrificed getting hurt to buy Jack time to absorb more power. That made the whole thing hero worthy.

      Jack as new creator/god….well…..NOT my favorite choice. I don’t think he has enough gravitas, experience or common sense to be God. HOWEVER, I do like that Amara is part of him now and they are in harmony!!! I can believe that THAT might balance out some of his shortcomings.
      I would have liked it better, if AMARA would have become the new light and maybe keep Chuck with her for balance. But then I do think also that Chuck as God was too far gone to be redeemed in this storyline!!

      I’m glad the Winchesters left him alive, but powerless. Living out his own life without power over others or their story seems a fitting ending to his recent shenanigans. I didn’t mind God as villain of this piece, but now I really hope that was IT for Chuck!

      I’m also happy that the Michael/Adam story found a resolution, but I would have liked to keep him on the “plus” column and have the Winchesters find a different way to trick God to come into the trap. Oh well, maybe the idea here is that ALL OG power players were wiped from the map and Winchesters are truly free of any old hang ups?

      They could have really left the montage out at the end….I didn’t need that. And WHY “Running on Empty” at that moment they were recharged and happy for the first time in a long time.

      I was kinda on the camp “blaze of glory”, but I have to say, I am quite glad that the bothers are still alive so far AND it’s JUST THEM (and Baby) again at the end!

      LOVED:
      – the sets like the gas station! So much work for so little screen time!
      – the FBBC beer at the bar tap
      – the bunker NOT blowing up

      PNP

    • #3401 Reply

      I do like Jack as God, and WAS a little touched at how reluctant Sam and Dean were to let go of him.

      I missed the FBBC beer!!!!

      Amara said she wanted to get to know Jack when this is all over. Now she’s part of him.

      I want them to keep the dog.

      I am very very afraid they’ll die next week. Bobby’s voice saying “see you on the other side” in next week’s preview put the fear in me as did the fact that this week was not particularly emotional for me and we’ve been told we’ll need every tissue in the world.

      • #3410 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “I am very very afraid they’ll die next week. Bobby’s voice saying “see you on the other side” in next week’s preview put the fear in me as did the fact that this week was not particularly emotional for me and we’ve been told we’ll need every tissue in the world.”

        Hey, JBB —
        If you’d asked me a month ago, I would’ve said I’d be sad if the brothers both died. Now, I don’t feel like I care anymore. Their story has gone so off the rails that it doesn’t matter to me. Maybe that’s a blessing.

        kate

        • #3412 Reply
          Shannon
          Guest

          Hi. I decided I won’t watch this one for reasons stated elsewhere. Only to add, it would seem their journey was meaningless, according to Dabb. Either they will have meaning as won in the final hour after 15 years of running in a hamster wheel, or they will meet some tragedy. As non of this naturally evolved, merely plot points and paper dolls to get to a new God, it really couldn’t matter less. In my story, Sam and Dean helped save the world from Darkness. The earned God’s praise, always had his love, and are now on a beach dating hula girls.

          • #3421 Reply
            kate38
            Keymaster

            “In my story, Sam and Dean helped save the world from Darkness. The earned God’s praise, always had his love, and are now on a beach dating hula girls.”

            I like your story better already, Shannon!

    • #3402 Reply
      kate38
      Keymaster

      Question about Jack: If he absorbs energy without meaning to (i.e. he killed flowers in a planter without meaning to), why didn’t he absorb energy/life force from Dean and Sam?

      Also, if he can’t even control his powers enough to not kill flowers in a planter, how can he somehow control his powers enough to be a god?

      kate

      • #3404 Reply
        PigNaPoke
        Participant

        Oh, kate, NOW you are looking for logic?? HAHAHA. Sorry, I don’t think there was any.

        I agree with you that if we are to believe that Jack makes a good next God, they should have come up with a more specific way to absorb energy.

        I know they were trying to allude that Jack is evil or deadly or out of control but it felt lazy and clumsy on the writers part.

        They could have made Jack to go the woods somewhere and suck a patch of land dry. Or make it seem more intentional on the planter part.

        WHEN did they figure out that Jack was a power hoover? Dean states it so matter of factly. Did I miss where he got that understanding from?

        ALSO – I did not like that they made Dean so adamant about Jack not being family etc just a couple of episodes ago, but now be all invested in him again. I really wish they would have kept it more even on the throughline.

        PNP

        • #3406 Reply
          kate38
          Keymaster

          “I agree with you that if we are to believe that Jack makes a good next God, they should have come up with a more specific way to absorb energy.

          I know they were trying to allude that Jack is evil or deadly or out of control but it felt lazy and clumsy on the writers part.

          They could have made Jack to go the woods somewhere and suck a patch of land dry. Or make it seem more intentional on the planter part.

          WHEN did they figure out that Jack was a power hoover? Dean states it so matter of factly. Did I miss where he got that understanding from?

          ALSO – I did not like that they made Dean so adamant about Jack not being family etc just a couple of episodes ago, but now be all invested in him again. I really wish they would have kept it more even on the throughline.

          PNP”

          All good points, PNP!
          And we’ve had more than our share of Dean whiplash this season. Jack isn’t family, but two episodes later, his name is carved into the table at the bunker? Dean wants to kill Amara? Wait, no he doesn’t. He tells her that he’d never hurt and they end up asking for her help. Dean was also angry with Cas for WAY too long at the start of this season. And do we even need to mention Dean pulling a gun on Sam? I’ve said it before — it feels like the writers don’t like Dean very much this season, and they don’t seem to understand who this character is at all.

          kate

      • #3413 Reply
        Shannon
        Guest

        To my knowledge, Jack has never done anything he intended to do. Impulsive and naive, he has floundered through everything by accident. Whatever the point or message may be is beyond my comprehension. I must remember to ask my 5 year old niece thinks; because, only a 5 year old could understand. A child running creation is better than an abusive adult? As long as the child is under the auspices of a dark destructive force, then everything should be okay? Why does this strike me as something sinister? Why was Chuck retconned to be hateful. Why does the dark destructive force who sucked out souls appear so kindly, old lady and the gingerbread house kindly? Jack’s 3 years old. There is no one who hasn’t manipulated him. Maybe it is the mother side of me that finds this resolution creepy.

        • #3422 Reply
          kate38
          Keymaster

          “A child running creation is better than an abusive adult? As long as the child is under the auspices of a dark destructive force, then everything should be okay? Why does this strike me as something sinister? Why was Chuck retconned to be hateful. Why does the dark destructive force who sucked out souls appear so kindly, old lady and the gingerbread house kindly? Jack’s 3 years old. There is no one who hasn’t manipulated him. Maybe it is the mother side of me that finds this resolution creepy.”

          I agree with all of this! Everybody gets a redemption arc or at least some character growth except for God???? Amara went from being a dark, destructive force to pleading on humanity’s behalf last week (much like Metatron did at the end of his redemption arc). Jack (if you swallow his story with a spoonful of honey) went from being a naïve toddler to being god himself? It’s stupid character growth, but at least it’s character growth. The same writers chose to leave Chuck in the toilet as a character — no growth, no redemption, no depth to his story, no nothing. Somebody in the writers room must really hate god.

    • #3403 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      The montage was also stupid because the toast “all we lost”, surely meaning all we lost and cared for….but then there are images of people they certainly don’t want back, like Lucifer, Abbadon, Metatron. Ruby etc…
      And if it was meant to show fan favorites then some were missing like Cain, Zachariah, Frank.

      It didn’t work either way.

      PNP

      • #3405 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “The montage was also stupid because the toast “all we lost”, surely meaning all we lost and cared for….but then there are images of people they certainly don’t want back, like Lucifer, Abbadon, Metatron. Ruby etc…
        And if it was meant to show fan favorites then some were missing like Cain, Zachariah, Frank.

        It didn’t work either way.

        PNP”

        I agree, PNP!! If they were gonna create a montage, it should’ve made more sense than what we got. Like JBB said, I didn’t “feel” the ending or the montage at all. In fact, I didn’t feel any emotion in this one at all. Jared had a tear in his eye when Jack left, but I didn’t feel that, either.

        kate

    • #3407 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Hey JBB,
      I, too, like WHAT Jack said about not going to be hands-on and how everyone has all they need and part of him in them already.

      So in the end, I guess, Jack might just be needed as the power cell for the universe and to keep balance with Amara? He doesn’t have to get involved at all?
      /
      What about HEAVEN and the shortage of power and angels there? I really had hoped they would have spared a sentence or two about that. Is Naomi still there and in power? Can Jack fix that situation?

      I’m guessing Death will be whichever Reaper#23 will die next?

      Also, I thought the Empty said that God had no dominion in her realm? But didn’t Lucifer say that GOD freed him?

      PNP

      • #3409 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “Also, I thought the Empty said that God had no dominion in her realm? But didn’t Lucifer say that GOD freed him?

        PNP”

        I think this plot point went out the window a long time ago. Every time Castiel got resurrected, Chuck had to pluck him out of the Empty to do it. So, clearly Chuck has some dominion there.

        kate

      • #3414 Reply
        Shannon
        Guest

        I find it peculiar that the chief criticisms of Chuck, hands off and doesn’t answer prayers, to be perfectly acceptable for Jack to have the same outlook. Of course they did negate the hands off aspect of Chuck by retconning him into a hyper obsessed control freak.

        • #3423 Reply
          kate38
          Keymaster

          “I find it peculiar that the chief criticisms of Chuck, hands off and doesn’t answer prayers, to be perfectly acceptable for Jack to have the same outlook. Of course they did negate the hands off aspect of Chuck by retconning him into a hyper obsessed control freak.”

          I thought the same thing when he said that. What’s the difference between “abandoning” humanity and being “hands off” so humanity is left alone to decide it’s own destiny? Po-‘tay-to, Po-‘tah-to.

          kate

    • #3408 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Oh, I wasn’t a fan of the table thing every since Mary’s initials showed up!! To me that will always be just D.W. and S.W. BUT at least now I see the added names as proof that Sam and Dean carved the additional “family members’ ” names there to commemorate them. If that is the case, however, I agree that it should be initials only.

      Anyhow….mute point. If the Boys want the names there….so be it.

      To me it looked CGI’d though. I think the S.W. and D.W. were actually carved. MAYBE the M.W. too? But Castiel and Jack looked fake tonight.

      PNP

    • #3417 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Thank you, Shannon, your points are all very interesting and well argued.

      My criticism is often that things are not explained enough. I can accept or at least respect the writers decisions, if I would understand some of their reasoning and I am left wondering more often than not in this season.

      I, for one, don’t mind GOD to be the villain as I said before. Maybe that is because I am not a Christian and don’t believe in the Christian version of God to begin with. The show has always handled Judeo-Christian mythology in unusual and fun ways imho so the idea of him being a very involved and often misled writer of the world’s story was fresh and interesting to me.

      I do agree with you on the doubt if a three year old toddler is a good alternative to the original God but I do love the message that they were apparently trying to convey that people should believe that the divine lives within each of us and that we can all access that and be better when we strive to. That it doesn’t take direct intervention from the higher being you chose to believe in to be the best you can be. So maybe a good hearted, curious, kind YOUNG being with a wonder about the world is better than a jaded, angry, vengeful OLD one?

      To be honest I had really hoped that the combination of Amara and God would have resulted in a role reversal with Amara becoming the light and creative force and God the dark and destructive one. THAT would have made most sense for me and fit into this season’s arc better. They were signs that Amara’s essence was changing when her touch didn’t kill the flower she held for example.

      ALAS the writers chose another path. Was it just because Jack/Alex are popular with the younger demographic that is clearly targeted nowadays? Probably. I guess many of the season 15 decisions were based on a possible continuation of the story via a movie or later miniseries? We most likely will never find out.

      Sadly, to me, it doesn’t feel EPIC enough of an end for our core characters…..but then….we have one more episode to go.

    • #3418 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Another thought on the end of yesterday’s episode:
      I’m fine with Sam and Dean deciding that they want to do a vacation or loooong road trip and leave all of their old live behind for a while. They deserve it so very much. BUT I sure hope we will get more of an official good bye to the BUNKER!!! If they are not coming back to it for us to see before the end, I very much want there to be a little montage of them packing up and putting the bunker in order and maybe leaving a note for whoever finds it next. An official locking up and handing over the key to the next generation or SOMETHING!

      I didn’t have the feeling that Sam and Dean were not planning to stay there for a while longer…..so there is still hope.

      The show creators and all actors were much too proud of and in love with that set to let it go without a little fanfare, right?

      It’s been their HOME, their fortress, their source of knowledge…..we need a good send of for the bunker.

      PNP

      • #3424 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        Hey, PNP 🙂

        I agree with all of this. The bunker has been their home and fortress for almost half of the whole series (season 8, right)? I hope it doesn’t get destroyed at the last minute just for dramatic effect. I hope it gets treated with respect.
        kate

    • #3419 Reply
      Shannon
      Guest

      I won’t deny that part of my problem with God being the villain is perhaps that of spirituality, though that would not necessarily be religion. It is if the show is going to introduce a being that has existed since the dawn of time and space, that being should not have the character traits of a moody teenager or a petulant child. A considering Supernatural never wavered from that being creating this beautiful and intricate world and conceived of a moral soul, it does not seem consistent with evil. How does a being that creates complex beauty and a soul for guidance, remorse and compassion have none of these attributes. As Chuck was retconned into an egotistical psychopath, he seems to be the antithesis of soul and beauty. These are just some of the absurd illogical contradictions that Dabb and his chapped assed monkeys presented.Perhaps an audience of binge watching 13 year olds or perpetually disastified adults can also accept this childishly hateful inconsistency, but I can not.
      I am also not oblivious to an obvious ax being grinded. Dabb wanted God dead at the end of season 11. He was denied by the CW president. He was also denied a spinoff by the CW president and I quote, “their will never be a spinoff from Supernatural, as people watch this world for Sam and Dean.” Forcing Sam and Dean into supporting roles in their own show, with agency and heroism supplanted by a cute child is as close to a spinoff as I can imagine.Resentful of the their creator, Eric Kripke, Dabb imposes that hatred onto Chuck and replaces him with Jack who represents Dabb.

      This season has been a comic book lacking vision, depth and intelligence, with characters that are caricatures of themselves. No growth, save Jack, and only minimally, as everyone mostly sat around waiting for someone to tell them when and what to do with respect to an over the top mustache twirling villain. I resent the hell out this season, and see absolutely no merit in it or whatever asinine message to whatever infantile audience they were targeting. It was a single minded vendetta to destroy what someone else created and replace it with his own lazy, hateful plagiarized version of a far better story.

      • #3425 Reply
        kate38
        Keymaster

        “How does a being that creates complex beauty and a soul for guidance, remorse and compassion have none of these attributes. As Chuck was retconned into an egotistical psychopath, he seems to be the antithesis of soul and beauty.”

        This is one of my main gripes with the Chuck-is-a-villain story line. I’ve thought long and hard about whether my own beliefs are shading my judgement. I don’t think they are. I’d be TOTALLY on board with Chuck being a villain if it was done in a way that made sense for the character. The Chuck from season 5 was on their side, but the Chuck from seasons 14 and 15 were not. Why? What changed? We’re just supposed to believe that after countless millennia, he just got bored? What?! He’s a writer, and writers lie. Huh? When you take the most powerful entity in creation and turn him from an affable hermit prophet into a super villain, we deserve a back story and an explanation. We haven’t gotten one.

        “Perhaps an audience of binge watching 13 year olds or perpetually disastified adults can also accept this childishly hateful inconsistency, but I can not.”

        I’ve been thinking this, but I don’t know if I’ve said it in a post. It does feel like season 15 is not written for somebody like me. It feels like they’ve abandoned the “old guard” and have decided to write stories that clearly appeal to a different audience. It might sound selfish, but I do sort of feel abandoned. I used to connect to this show, its characters, and their stories, but now I don’t. Maybe that’s by design. It’s their show and of course they can do whatever they want with it, but if I’d tuned in to Supernatural for the first time in season 15, I’d never have watched the show past one or two episodes. That saddens me.

        “This season has been a comic book lacking vision, depth and intelligence, with characters that are caricatures of themselves. No growth, save Jack, and only minimally, as everyone mostly sat around waiting for someone to tell them when and what to do with respect to an over the top mustache twirling villain.”

        Also very true. But it makes more sense if your earlier comment is true. This final season wasn’t written for the same audience as the previous 14 seasons were.
        On the up-side, there’s no point in targeting a younger audience unless you plan to DO something once you get their attention. Maybe there’s a long-game marketing strategy playing out? I read that Jensen and Danneel have started a production company, so maybe there’s something in the works. Movie? Who knows. I just hope there’s a point to all this and that they didn’t destroy this show for nothing.

        kate

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by kate38.
        • #3431 Reply
          Shannon
          Guest

          Thank you, Kate. In total, the Dabb seasons have not been well received. I assume that many, who have been watching for years, have departed. I was rather surprised that they final season did not rally them back for nostalgia or curiosity. Most adults have actual TVs and watch live, if interested. Nonetheless, the marketable numbers have plummeted over these last few years and dramatically this season. It would be largely the Twitter and other social media children who adore Jack, Harry Potter Slytherin House magic, and comic books who loudly proclaim this to be the best season evaaaaa! Characters that are more complex than a distorted facial expression and a few overly dramatic words or boring exposition and redundancy that fit in a balloon are all they can process. Character motivation and story development with sincere carefully crafted explanations are dumped in favor of “feels” and over simplification.

          No doubt an anti-theist motif; and if we are honest, angels are dicks was prevalent enough in the early years. It simply went too far with the cheap meta characterization. I genuinely believe that Chuck was Kripke. Dabb resentful of his acclaim and many harkening back to the glory days, coupled with Dabb’s failed spinoffs motivated this despicable character assasination. They didn’t bother with a legitimate explanation, because there wasn’t one.

    • #3433 Reply
      PigNaPoke
      Participant

      Kate and Shannon,

      All VERY interesting, well-argued and valued points!
      I do agree with you in parts.

      Yes, I would have loved more of a reasoning WHY Chuck suddenly turned into what he became.

      Yes, this season seemed mostly fan service and an endless parade of cameos written for the younger and less deeply involved fans.

      Yes, there are a myriad of ways I could have seen this play out that I would have liked better.

      BUT, I decided for myself that I want to be grateful that all the main players gave so much of their professional life and career to us.

      I decided for myself to always look (HARDER than it was necessary in earlier seasons) for the positive and the things I still enjoyed and the performances which kept getting better in my opinion instead of letting the parts that bugged me win out.

      And I feel, mostly after listening to a good number of actor and writer and producer podcast interviews (mostly not SPN related) this year, that I know woefully little about the push and pull in a creative team that makes up and TV Series production!!! I learned a little bit about how much.the network and studio do get involved with the writing process when the writer’s vision differs from the way the money trail seems to go. I was pretty shocked about that as I could see that as greatly frustrating for the creative process.

      I don’t mean to say that ALL the seemingly lazy and partially inconsistent writing in S15 stems from such conflict, BUT I have more of a tolerance for it now.

      Things like adding Jack in such big and expanding re was clearly a wish of the network to satisfy the younger audience members by having “their own” character.

      Anyhow, I completely understand your qualms and I, too, wish the show would have played out with purely us “old guard” in mind, but I am hugely grateful that I had a show I mostly loved for FIFTEEN years. And no matter how bumpy the road became at times, I still rather travel it than stop.

      • #3435 Reply
        Shannon
        Guest

        I wish I had some confidence in the legacy they leave behind. I really dislike my negativism.  I had so many theories to bolster me through this season.  Chuck has a plan or this isn’t the same universe, etc. etc. etc. Largely because no one is acting like themselves, especially Sam and Dean. And they all felt like cheap imitations, lackluster without soul and purpose. 

        I don’t know if it was intentional or if the writers don’t know or don’t care about them, or understand them. Maybe it is impossible for these few not so good writers to pick up where the others left off. 

        Something will happen all melodramatic and full of “feels” (God how I hate that immature term). Except it will be barren, contrived and bereft of anything earned and organic. 

        I don’t see any of this as what really happens, because they aren’t the same people in their story. So, for me, blessed and praised by Chuck as the firewall between light and dark, Sam and Dean will always be out there huntin things and saving people until they choose to stop. We just won’t see it.

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