December 30, 2020 at 11:05 am #4125journalbookbinderKeymaster
Sorry I kinda fell down on the job here since Bloody Mary fell on Christmas week! But I did watch and please discuss here before moving on to Skin.
I didn’t set up the discussion ahead of time, so I’ll just go on and comment on Bloody Mary.
I really like Bloody Mary. I never saw The Ring, but “Mary” is very clearly borrowed from the girl in the Ring; the hanging hair, the unnatural crawling around…all of that.
I loved the early exploration of Urban Legends and was surprised that my wife had never done Bloody Mary at a slumber party! That was kind of standard, along with “Light as a Feather, Stiff as a Board” and Ouiji boards…there were some good jump scares in this one. And the idea of something behind you in the mirror is eternally creepy. That scene where the girl is in class and she keeps seeing Mary in every single reflection behind her right down to her teacher’s glasses was a great scene I’d forgotten about.
But the best part was the very first inkling of the secrets between Sam and Dean. The fact that Mary revealed her “knowledge” (that Sam had been dreaming of Jessica’s death weeks before it happened; the big secret he was keeping from Dean) to Sam alone while Dean was outside distracting the cops meant Sam could continue to keep that a secret. Dean’s hurt expression that Sam would keep ANYTHING from him when Sam said while they were driving that there were some things he was going to keep to himself set up a crucial dynamic between them that they battled with for 15 years. Dean obviously always expected complete truth from Sam. This bit of friction really intrigued me on first watch and made me feel that this was about way more than urban legends and hunting monsters and horror.
The filming of the scene in the antique shop with all the mirror smashing was amazing. I loved it. Sam and Dean helping each other, Dean arriving just in time to NOT have heard Sam’s secret spilled by Mary, then Dean figuring out that Mary seeing her own reflection would destroy her – I loved all of that.
- This topic was modified 4 months ago by journalbookbinder.
January 1, 2021 at 10:08 am #4208kate38Keymaster
One of the things I miss about the early seasons is the heavy urban legend mythology. Even I knew about Bloody Mary when I was an adolescent. I’d never EVER say her name (of course), but I recall hearing about the urban legend. I think in the version I heard as a kid, she drags you to hell. But I guess for young Catholics, everything pretty much drags your soul to hell – LOL! I love seeing the show’s spin on legends like Hookman and Bloody Mary.
I‘m probably showing my evil side, but this is one of the episodes when I didn’t really feel sorry for the stupid kids, because they kinda asked for what they got. Yes, it’s a shame the dad died, but the stupid blonde got what was coming to her. Sorry, not sorry.
I loved Dean being so protective of Sam – trying to help Sam deal with his nightmares, trying to convince Sam that Jessica’s death wasn’t his fault (although it probably was, because he didn’t warn her; probably wouldn’t have helped, but still…), and smashing the mirror and all. It’s also cool how he helped schmooze the assistant coroner, and that he won all that money gambling. I wonder if this is the episode when I started falling in love with Dean Winchester.
I love the location cameos in this one. The hospital staircase from “In My Time of Dying”, and the hospital building front have been used a few times. I guess it’s not a cameo if this is the first time we see it, though. Is there a word for that?
I think the actor who played the retired cop did an amazing job! The show really did a good job casting some of these guest stars: Constance Welch’s husband in “Pilot”, the wendigo attack survivor in “Wendigo”, the retired cop in this episode – they were all very convincing and haunting. To me, their scenes helped set the tone for the whole episode. I get that this show catered to a mostly 18 to 25 male target audience, so we needed a healthy dose of stupid young girls; but they didn’t add much to these early season episodes at all for me. The guest stars who added gravitas and credibility were the heroes for me — aside from the Winchesters, of course.
Gisa, you asked for plot armor alerts: Dean being able to single-handedly knock out TWO security guards who have night sticks and GUNS DRAWN is highly unlikely and would be considered plot armor. ?
Question: at the end of the episode, Dean and Sam are both bleeding from the eyes. I get why the curse worked on Sam, but why did it work on Dean? He didn’t kill anybody and didn’t have secrets like that. I wonder if the curse is based on whether you FEEL guilty about someone else’s death. Dean feels guilty about a metric ton of things that aren’t his fault, so that would make sense. Theories?
Speaking of secrets and guilt: Okay, Sam. It’s fine to be a priss and keep your secret. But that makes it REALLY hard on the guy who’s with you 24-7 when you keep having nightmares and having OVBIOUS signs of a problem. There was no good reason for keeping this secret. In season 2, Dean didn’t tell Sam about John’s last words because John had told him not to. And in season 7, when Dean didn’t tell Sam about killing Amy, it was because Sam was in the middle of a nervous breakdown, and Dean didn’t know if he could handle the truth. I know as the show progresses, both brothers keep secrets from time to time. But Dean (as far as I can remember) always has a good reason for keeping something secret from Sam. There was no reason for Sam to keep this secret from Dean. Sigh…
January 1, 2021 at 10:15 am #4209kate38Keymaster
“I really like Bloody Mary. I never saw The Ring, but “Mary” is very clearly borrowed from the girl in the Ring; the hanging hair, the unnatural crawling around…all of that.”
Absolutely! The shojo in season 7 also gave me that movie vibe, but more from the Grudge films. Hey, if you have a chance, you should DEFINITELY watch the original “Ring” (the sequel was just okay). It’s plenty creepy 🙂
January 15, 2021 at 8:34 pm #4355PigNaPokeParticipant
LOVELY CREEPY episode!!! I never heard of Bloody Mary growing up in Germany, we obviously had different legends, so this was a new one for me back in the day and has remained a favorite Urban Legend for me ever since.
I also liked the continuation from Phantom Traveler of having another being revealing something to Sam about Sam!! I agree, JBB, it’s really unsettling having a stranger or a monster in their case knowing too much about you and revealing it to you like this. It also makes us as the audience get insight into Sam’s rising tension and stress about his secret that he’s carrying around and wondering when he’ll snap.
I agree with what both of you already said – great effects with Bloody Mary’s appearance and weird movement, great scenes in the Antique shop’s mirror room, great cooperation between the brothers to overpower Mary in the end, good quick thinking of Dean there at the end.
SOLID episode for me.
I, too, wondered why Dean would have been effected by Mary’s curse but I always thought is had to do with his overall tendency to carry the burden and guilt around for all of the people he COULDN’T save or felt died on his watch. He didn’t KILL them, but he feels responsible for them dying. That was logical enough for me.
I for one don’t hold it against Sam to keep his secret at this point. OF COURSE, I would have LOVED the brothers to always be on the same page and honest with each other, BUT that would have gotten pretty boring at some point. A dynamic back and forth of issues and secrets and stress and guilt and so on just makes for better storytelling. I can appreciate that. AND it makes the times that they ARE on the same level and work truly TOGETHER all the more sweet.
The way I see it here is that Sam feels guilty and horrible for NOT having had a chance to save Jessica. He beats himself up internally for having failed her. And he isn’t ready to ADMIT that out loud to the one person he always looked up to and who’s opinion of him actually matters to him. He doesn’t want to hear and see that Dean is disappointed in him, so he keeps it close to the vest for the time being. I can appreciate that.
BOTH had screwed up reasons for keeping secrets through the seasons. I do think it’s pretty evenly split between them on who lied to whom. I do believe that it was never done maliciously, but always with the OTHER’s best interest at heart. Often misled, YES, as they would have been so much better off dealing with most of the crap together, but understandable in the way that they always tried to protect each other.
January 15, 2021 at 8:36 pm #4356PigNaPokeParticipant
Plot armor alert, noted.
To me that’s just AWESOME DEAN WINCHESTER!!
Chuck wasn’t paying attention to them at this time, in my head. 🙂 But I get why it could seem like it.
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