Let’s all talk about Croatoan (S2 E9)

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    • journalbookbinder
        July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #8978

        Looking forward to rewatching this one! I love the Lost Colony mythology. I feel like life was so rough back then, everyone just probably DIED and but idea what something more happened to them was always fascinating. Colonizing? Never a good idea anyway! But I remember liking this one quite a bit and now, oddly enough, after just weathering a modern pandemic (that is far from over even now), I wonder if I’ll watch this differently with shut-downs and the closing off of towns (several reservations completely closed off like this during covid where you were not allowed to drive through anymore in an effort to keep the virus out during covid). Bring it on! I remember loving that this was one of the first times that Dean refused to leave Sam to save himself even though Sam asked him to do just that.

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      • PigNaPoke
          July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9055

          GREAT START to this one!

          I was really shocked the first time around that it looked like Dean was shooting a human without mercy. Made me think back to SKIN and gave me the suspicion Dean was possessed or maybe some other way influenced. Jensen played it so great with Dean being stone faced and brutal until that one little quiver of his mouth right before shooting, so you suddenly knew he wasn’t as sure and cold as he seemed. Very chilling.

          LOVE the grainy visual quality to this one – at least on my TV.

          OK, with what we know in the end….it all being a set up to test if Sam can withstand the virus (even more chilling nowadays….)….was the “no cell signal” also a set up or just back woods Oregon? And if it was demons….how?

          I like the way that Sam and Dean are totally out of their depth right from the beginning and admit it, too, discussing trying to get help from Bobby or Ellen.

          That is an awesome piece of driving when Dean has to get away from the creeps on the bridge. It probably wasn’t Jensen at the time, but it looked cool as hell. And thankfully the towns people all sucked at shooting so Baby wasn’t hurt. HA

          The gun stand off with the Army Dude is intense but hilarious. Dean and him screaming at each other before deciding they better work together.
          Funny how the Sarge was introduced very briefly before but the little we knew about him until that point made it believable to me that Dean would at least partially trust him.

          I do feel bad for Dean having to be the one shooting two civilians who aren’t clearly “monstrous”. That has to be tough on him no matter what he says. And I love Sam for picking up on that and calling Dean out on it. I was a little surprised why Dean was so gung-ho on shooting Dwayne immediately and not wait for the virus to show up first. But I love the fact that he DOESN’T! It’s jarring to watch him go through the same thing we already watched in the vision but with a different outcome.

          ALL of the actors are doing a fabulous job together in the scene after Sam gets trapped and bled on by the nurse. The tension retching up and up and up between all of them is palpable. There are SO many emotions from the different people in this one scene it’s masterful – Dean in super protective mode is scary and powerful and heartbreaking all at once; the fear from the Sarge and Dwayne and the doctor’s helplessness are all very real; Sam’s quiet desperation at being in the middle of the conflict and not wanting anyone else to be at risk tugs at the heart.

          Of course there is the usual wordless way the Winchester’s communicate in this situation, but I also love how Dean and the Sarge have a “soldier-to-soldier” rapport that needs little words. They understand each other on a different level that seems very real to me. The guy isn’t a hunter, but Dean shows him respect for having seen action and knowing how to handle himself.

          WOW – really tough to watch brother scene with Sam begging Dean to leave and live and Dean just being DONE!

          Still wonder where EVERYONE went?! And they totally should have tied Sam up until is was clear he wasn’t infected….but maybe they did off camera?

          Shame the Sarge had to bite it as change for the phone booth!! But I do like that they kept to method of communicating with YED at the time consistent.

          OH and the end….I’m glad Dean finally got his off his chest what dad put on his shoulders….but I hate the (temporary) fall out… It’s a pretty spot for that scene, though.

          Although there is an inconsistency here, because in Season 8’s “The Great Escapist“ Sam says that Dean’s donkey on the Grand Canyon ride was farty but here he says that they’ve never been to the Grand Canyon!

          GREAT episode!

          • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by PigNaPokePigNaPoke.
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          • kate38
              July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9367

              “Although there is an inconsistency here, because in Season 8’s “The Great Escapist“ Sam says that Dean’s donkey on the Grand Canyon ride was farty but here he says that they’ve never been to the Grand Canyon!”

              Right!?!? They should’ve hired us to review the scripts for those types of inconsistencies 🙂


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          • journalbookbinder
              July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9126

              PNP (I am just going to reply to you here) – totally agree that that first flash with Dean shooting someone in cold blood did also make me think he was possessed somehow. Sam’s right that it’s not like him to kill a person, but it seems that the whole burden John laid on him of having to kill Sam if he can’t “save” him kind of made Dean give up a bit; or want to.

              I had actually forgotten that Sam was immune!!! That WAS creepy in a way. Made Dean wonder what the hell was going on with him even more with the visions and everything.

              Oh, I think the no cell signal and no pay phone was all done by demons to trap people for the demonic virus test run!

              I had to laugh at how the small-town doctor had only JUST started to figure out what it was through the microscope and Sam asks, “Can you cure it?” Um…sure…give me five more minutes and I’ll have a cure. WTF?!

              I too like it when Sam and Dean are starting to get nervous about a situation. It makes ME nervous and I can totally feel for them and makes ME watch everything more carefully; trying to figure it out (at least the first time) right alone with them.

              I wondered how, when a bunch of people opened fire on the Impala, there was not one bullet hole.

              Yes! The standoff in the car with Sarge was HILARIOUS! I loved it! Driving with guns trained on each other. “This’ll be a relaxing drive.”

              Yes! I loved the fact that vision had a different outcome! Often they get there too late to stop a vision or change it but this showed it CAN be changed.

              Hee hee; Sarge as “change” for the phone booth. Yes. That was a bummer. I wonder how long the demon was in Dwayne? The whole time, I guess, because he never got infected.

              I love that Dean just wants to escape. To NOT deal with everything and just go enjoy it while things are good IF something is going to happen to Sam.

              Back to the scene where Dean refuses to leave Sam when he thinks he’s infected; one of my favorite ever. I know he was tired of the burden he was carrying; about Sam and how something might be wrong with him (thanks a lot, John!). But it was one of the first times he’s really doesn’t want to live without Sam or shows that. It’s repeated many times over the next seasons (I will never forget that much later one when he inhales deeply to try to make himself sick like Sam so he can go too). This first one really got me. Sam begging him to go and Dean refusing. Then Dean can’t even really be that glad that Sam didn’t get sick because THAT means something is weird with Sam too!

              The confession scene along the river was very good. Dean didn’t want to tell him. Sam’s mad, but what was Dean supposed to do? Very good.

              I wonder where everyone vanished to?

              The entire cast was great in this one. Even the mom at the start whose family turned on her. Great casting.

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            • journalbookbinder
                July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9131

                I have to add that it DID feel interesting to watch this WHILE we are going through a pandemic unlike any I’ve ever dealt with. I thought to myself, “Well, at least with covid it doesn’t make us turn on each other like this demon virus.” Then I realized how not-true that statement was. During this pandemic (especially now as it seemed like we were more on the same page at the start when so much was unknown) it seems like Americans have done nothing BUT turn on each other! I am embarrassed that my fellow Americans can be so selfish with clinging to ridiculous vaccine hesitancy. We’ll be stuck in this forever if we don’t all get vaccinated; everyone who, medically, possibly can. We ARE killing each other when people choose to be unvaccinated. Maybe not by turning someone else into a visible killer, but they ARE an invisible killer if they spread the vaccine or give it a place to mutate into something new that we cannot vaccinate against.

                Suddenly, the idea of life changing in a day like it did in this episode does not seem so far-fetched. Everything changed with daily life with covid. We lost over half a million Americans and it is still developing (some compromised children have been getting very ill now; not relegated to the elderly). It is not over. Sadly, none of us have Sam’s immunity.

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                • kate38
                    July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9366

                    Sigh –this is all so true! And we don’t even have demons to blame for our collective behavior. It’s just wicked people being wicked.

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                • PigNaPoke
                    July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9148

                    I completely agree, JBB!!

                    Our “fantasy horror” show – especially THIS episode seems awfully realistic nowadays! And we’re NOT stuck in a test run.


                    GET VACCINATED PEOPLE! No one’s gonna CURE this one either!

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                  • kate38
                      July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9365

                      I think it’s cool that the writers used the Roanoke colony story as a springboard for this episode. It’s not exactly an urban legend, but it’s definitely one of the greatest mysteries in all of American folklore.

                      REALLY minor point, but I love the music that’s playing when the brothers initially roll into town. This is one of the few early season episodes (Nightshifter is the other one) when I started to love the show’s original compositions as much as I loved the classic rock that peppered so many of these episodes. Who doesn’t love “Americana”, which became Dean’s theme?! Kudos to Jay Gruska and Chris Lennertz, who both stayed with the show until the very end!

                      I LOVE that Dean is always so quick to start figuring out what’s going on. As soon as he realized phone lines and cell towers were down, he realized someone or some”thing” was isolating the town. I LOVE when the writers show us how smart he is!

                      Dean’s commitment to Sam is the one thing that has always shined for me in this episode. When Beverly Tanner changed and attacked the group, Dean wasn’t there. But when Sam confirmed that she was infected, Dean shot her without any hesitation – just based on Sam’s word alone. He also spared the kid (who was actually lying) based on Sam’s word and against his own judgement. That shows tremendous trust in Sam and his judgement. It just makes Sam’s betrayal in later seasons (like season 4) that much more heartbreaking, because Dean never doubted that he could count on Sam until those events happened. In season 5 “Sympathy for the Devil”, when Dean tells Sam that he doesn’t think they could ever be what they were before, scenes like this one from Crotoan help capture the enormous weight of that statement.

                      I love that Dean was willing to stay with Sam after he got infected – even if it meant they’d both die. However, did anyone else wonder if Dean was staying because he thought he might have to kill Sam per John’s warning?

                      I love those scenes between Dean and the Master Sergeant! Bobby Hosea and Jensen have such great chemistry and timing. That scene in the car was a fun and light moment to break up the drama of this episode.
                      Plot armor moment: Even someone as amazing as Dean Winchester probably wouldn’t be able to pull a gun on Sarge like that without getting shot. Dean’s fast, but that would’ve been highly unlikely.

                      Speaking of great guest stars, Chiton Crane (Beverly Tanner) played a woman who killed her husband in “Southern Comfort” and she was also Kelly Kline’s mother in later seasons.

                      Hey, when Dean tried to leave town, he came across an abandoned car with the license plate “WTF-4C7” – do y’all think the props people were having some fun with “WTF”?


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                    • journalbookbinder
                        July 22, 2021 at 10:36 am #9457

                        Kate; early-season music (both the classic rock and the original compositions) is truly superb.

                        Good point, Kate, about how much Dean trusts Sam word.

                        I do not think Dean was staying to perhaps kills Sam. As Dean says in “Born Under a Bad Sign” shortly, he’d rather die that kill Sam. Even if Sam attacked HIM, infected him, etc…he would never kill Sam.

                        Ha! Never saw the abandoned car license plate! Now I’m wondering too!

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                    Let’s all talk about Croatoan (S2 E9)

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