Let’s all talk about Dark Side of the Moon (S5 E16)

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    • journalbookbinder
        February 7, 2023 at 10:30 am #41064

        I love this one. It’s so trippy and so sweet and such an insight into Sam and Dean’s emotions and what is most important or traumatizing to them. If someone read they synopsis to me, I would think this episode would never work. But it REALLY works. Can’t wait to watch it again!

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      • PigNaPoke
          February 7, 2023 at 10:30 am #42576

          Another STELLAR episode and show-and-tell of all SPN can be. Funny and sad, packed with new lore and info and giving great new insight into our main characters. It spans the full scope of emotions and I love it for that.

          SO MANY iconic scenes in this episode – fire work in the field (SO beautiful), a visit to the road house in heaven (yesssss, ASH! And Pamela), Dean throwing the amulet away (knife to the heart)…

          It’s also a really short episode  – only 40 minutes – but seems so much longer.

          SOLID argument by Roy that you don’t want a pissed off Dean coming after you for the rest of your life!!! And of course, Dean taunts him with the “when I get back…” I wonder if he actually WAS that confident that he wouldn’t stay dead?

          LOVE the way we figure out WITH Dean where he is! Cas’ instructions are hilarious! “Don’t go into the light.” “Thanks, Carol Ann.” hahaha.

          I LOVE all of Dean’s memories we get to see.

          And although Sam’s good memories seem to be everything BUT of his family, I never bought that this was actually what Sam’s heave really would look like. To me it always was a manipulation of Zachariah to drive a wedge between Sam and Dean.

          I’m not saying that Sam didn’t FEEL like he wanted a better family SITUATION than the one he got and that because of that he enjoyed some rare glimpses into other people’s “perfect” lives or have some freedom from the hunting life but I don’t believe that those are Sam’s happiest memories!! Like the night he went to college…might have been a short lived triumph to “get away” but there is no way that is a happy memory.

          I completely understand why Dean feels so hurt by all of this, but I also wish Dean would cut Sam a little slack here. After all, they already know that angels are douchebags and messing with them at every chance they get. And they ran into Zachariah enough times to know that he only has his OWN interest at heart! So it isn’t a big stretch to imagine that they are being fucked with here again.

          And when you look at Dean’s memories, they aren’t all pure happiness either. When Dean remembers the fight between mom and dad, that would have been scary for a kid. Sam’s observation about how long Dean cleaned up after dad is very poignant.  Jensen’s ability to turn into “little boy” mode is incredible.

          GODS I miss Ash!!! He would have been such great back ground character to show up every once in a while. SIGH.  But at least we get him here and he is GLORIOUS in his “Ashness” (“Bud, blood and beer nuts – best smell in the world.”) and pivotal. THANK YOU, Andrew Dabb!

          I remember Chad Lindberg telling the story at a con that it was JENSEN who taught him how to shotgun a beer. LOL

          LOVE the comment Ash makes about heaven being “like Disneyland, only without all the antisemitism”. And Roy and Walt (Disney?) being the ones who shot Sam and Dean.  HAHA.

          Pamela is trying to sell Dean on saying YES to Michael came out of left field for me, but I was happy she found peace and I love the fact that she TAKES a kiss from Dean and confirms that her fantasy was true.

          Mary turning mean and then into YED is creepy and Sam Smith is actually doing a pretty good job here. And Kurt Fuller is amazing!

          INTERESTING that Joshua says that God is on earth! So, was it implied here already that Chuck is God?

          This scene is SO tough to me because you see Dean’s hope for help and Sam’s belief in God crumble into rubble before our eyes.

          And when Castiel just stands there almost catatonic in his disbelief, it’s heart-breaking. Unfortunately, I totally get being so deeply disappointed in your father !!!

          HAAATE that Dean felt it necessary to let go of the amulet at this particular point – giving up on hope for a solution of the mess they are in AND giving up on Sam for a moment. Believing Cas that the amulet is worthless. So so sad.

          Still, with all the pain at the end, it’s an AMAZING episode and so impactful to watch. To me we are left with the feeling of doom overwhelming hope for the first time in the series because DEAN is at that point of hopelessness and it’s scary and it’s GREAT story telling.

          PNP

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        • journalbookbinder
            February 7, 2023 at 10:30 am #42728

            I forgot how much screen time Ash and Pamela have in this one. I love both of those characters and THIS is the RIGHT way to bring back a dead character…not as a ghost (Bobby) or an angry spirit (Jo) or an AU person (Bobby and Charlie) – THIS is the the character we know and love; not a weird version of them and it’s REAL because Sam and Dean are on their (spirit’s) turf. Loved that.

            I’ve been critical of The Winchesters and the way Latika knows everything all the time – always has the answer and it’s never hard to figure out what they need to know. I guess I could sorta put that same criticism on this episode for Cas communicating all the essential information, though Sam and Dean STILL had to stumble their way through to find the road Cas wanted them to follow; so it was still better than the “all the answers” Winchesters.

            But this episode is so good. It’s so out of reality that as a viewer, we really don’t know what to expect. Just like Sam and Dean, we don’t know the rules in this world and that makes this one suspenseful for me!

            The first scene is masterful right out of the gate! Dean recognizing the hunter’s voice is so very very “Dean”, and he turns on the charm, trying to talk them down. The way they blow Sam away is so very violent. If anything, I would expect a bit more of a complete panic response from Dean and you can see the desperation in his face, but I think he needed to lose it a bit more here than he did. And then they kill him too. Reasonable reason though; no, you would not want Dean on your ass after killing Sam. You’d be a dead man yourself then, no doubt.

            The thing I loved about this episode from very first watch years ago was the differing POV’s. The choice of “good” experiences that were highlighted in heaven. We can wonder if Zachariah is manipulating the whole thing, but since he was still looking for them at first, I think the start was the “real” heaven experience of them dying and getting to relive their best memories. The fact that Dean is so hurt by the memories that Sam remembers most fondly is heartbreaking. All the times Sam WASN’T with his family. But I don’t blame Sam for this at all! I know people who grew up in the same household with their siblings and when they each talk about their childhood, it sounds like they lived completely separate childhoods. So this situation with Sam and Dean is very relatable to me in that way. Sam kinds sums it up when Dean calls him out on his “good” memories always excluding his family and Sam reminds him that he never got to have the loving, doting mom experience that Dean got to have for awhile. It’s true. They lived different childhoods.

            Learning some of the characters and “rules” of heaven are interesting. Loved that Ash could break out of his own loop (why in the world was he dressed as a Mexican wrestler when he found Sam and Dean???). The whole scene with Joshua, on first watch, was not what I was expecting. They go through all of this; have this great opportunity to talk to someone who talks to God (or listens while God talks) and the guy basically has no news at all for them! He likes them! He hopes they succeed. But he can’t do anything and he can only tell them that God does know about all of it and isn’t inclined to lift a finger. I thought that was so cruel! It still is.

            The loss of hope at the end on the part of Dean and Cas is heartbreaking. And it’s interesting that it’s Sam who brushes it off more easily. But it feels like it completely defeated Dean and that’s hard to watch; throwing out the amulet is only a visual expression of that…as well as, seemingly, his loss of his childhood fondness for Sam maybe? Maybe it was realizing Sam’s good memories didn’t involve him? Maybe it was a way to show Sam that he was out of hope? But when Cas asked for the amulet, Dean didn’t want to hand it over, I assumed because of what it meant as a gift from Sam. So to me, him throwing it out was more about Sam than God. Joshua DID say to Dean that he’s “lost faith in his brother” and Sam looked really shocked to hear it. But I guess after the Famine episode where Sam gives in to the demon blood craving, maybe Dean’s back to not trusting him at all.

            PigNaPoke; there is NO WAY that was 40 minutes!!!! There is SO MUCH in there! It feels like 90 because it’s so packed full of insight!

            I’m trying to find out of Sam’s dog “Bones” that he had for a week while he ran away was played by Jared’s real dog Sadie. Still trying to find out.

            Jensen’s ability to say the lines the memory; to comfort his mom like a little boy would WAS incredible.

            Really great episode.

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          • PigNaPoke
              February 7, 2023 at 10:30 am #44022

              The first scene is masterful right out of the gate! Dean recognizing the hunter’s voice is so very very “Dean”, and he turns on the charm, trying to talk them down. The way they blow Sam away is so very violent. If anything, I would expect a bit more of a complete panic response from Dean and you can see the desperation in his face, but I think he needed to lose it a bit more here than he did. And then they kill him too. Reasonable reason though; no, you would not want Dean on your ass after killing Sam. You’d be a dead man yourself then, no doubt.

               

              I thought it was PERFECT that Dean DOESN’T lose his shit when Sam is shot. To me it is absolutely chilling that Dean is so calm. He’s clearly pissed that this happens right then, but he also immediately seems to believe that “this is it” for him as well. His composure here is showing that to me. Now Sam’s dead, Dean is outgunned and doesn’t see a way out, so his natural response is to want to die as well, not to be left alone in the world. When Roy tries to reason with Walt (or was it the other way around?) to leave Dean alive, Dean goes on it offensive and taunts him, egging him on to kill him, instead of finding an argument to leave him alive.

              It is heartbreaking but also quintessential Dean to me.

               

              PNP

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              • notheridjit
                February 7, 2023 at 10:30 am #51628

                Dean KNEW he was coming back – I could see it in his eyes. It wasn’t just bravado. Him getting upset about Sam’s memories is typical Dean, of course. And typical, Sam’s memories were of times when he was alone/without Dean – and of course without Dad.

                My only complaint about this episode was the way Ash made his appearance. For some reason that is my skip moment in replay.  It just didn’t feel ‘Ash’ to me.

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            Let’s all talk about Dark Side of the Moon (S5 E16)

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