Let’s all talk about – The Winchesters – Teach Your Children Well (S1 E2)

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    • journalbookbinder
        October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21855

        It IS fun to have new Supernatural-universe episodes to discuss! I loved it last week and can’t wait to do it again tonight. I do check back during the week and reply. The discussion is ongoing.

        I used to watch all of the previews and spoilers before every Supernatural episode, but I have no clue now with The Winchesters! Looks from the trailer like John and Mary are going to be questioning someone or working a case (???). So, going in blind, but let’s talk about it!

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      • PigNaPoke
          October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21907

          Overall nice episode.

          I liked that we were finding out a few more nuggets about each of the core four. Deepening the characters.

          Man, Mary IS bossy…and rash. The way she just overwrites everyone and orders them around isn’t smart. But it’s quite realistic for a teenager I would say. Especially one that is used to have orders barked AT her. As Carlos says later, she does exactly what she didn’t enjoy having done to her. However, it’s something familiar to her so she falls into it .

          Really liked Carlos being less loud in this one and standing up to Mary trying to set her straight by telling her she’s being “too Samuel” like !! JoJo had some really good moments in this episode.

          And I’m glad Mary came around and apologized seeing her mistake. And I loved the conversation between Carlos and Mary back at the club house where she brings it back up and wants to clear the air. A more open communication between the team members will be a good thing to see happening.

          Lata is lovely and I like that the team has their own lore expert around with her. She’s basically the new (or old) version of always available WiFi and the internet on SPN…lol.

          You can start to see why John and Mary might bond over their parent issues. Although they are coming from opposite ends at it – John wanting to FIND his purpose and legacy and Mary wanting to shed it. Will be interesting to explore further.

          INTERSTING about Ada and her knowledge to induce that trance to write the echo words! Do we think she WAS a woman of letters?

          Some of my other thoughts as I was watching:

          Question: Was the burnt out creepy old factory supposed to be the MoL chapter house in Savannah?? Not realistic looking at all of the other chapter houses we have seen before? Unless this one was supposed to be long abandoned? (Nice locale though)

          Is Dean’s voice over a little too Jensen Texas drawl to anyone else?

          I like the use of the “classic” looking zombie here. We haven’t had that on SPN. And they even died the “Walking Dead Way” by stabbing them in the head. NICE.

          Someone could’ve told John that beating a zombie won’t kill it. LOL. But he throws some great punches. I like that his current M.O. is to go all out with his hand-to-hand skills, because it’s realistic that he would fall back on something he knows. However, I want him to ask more questions about what to do.

          So, they drove from Kansas to New Orleans and back to Kansas in the pilot. Now to Savannah just to find a lead back to Kansas? LOL. That’s a lot of driving, even with cheap gas. And John said that “the last two weeks” they’ve been looking for Samuel but the last we saw in the pilot was them taking off to Savannah….they drove two weeks?

          Didn’t like the fight between Millie and John. That seemed a little forced and he was so rude to her. She isn’t asking much…ONE CALL. But we need a little more back story about their relationship to judge what’s happening between them. We know already that he faked his age and signed up to the Marines without her say-so. He seems quite rebellious and bull-headed, which fits with his later self.
          And I loved the conversation between John and Millie at the end. It seemed real and warm and nuanced. Both actors did really well with it. And it made the fight at the beginning more understandable to me.

          YES, first TW motel!! Funny, but when I saw the cars in the parking lot, I’m looking for Baby and then thought “huh, all vintage cars?”….duh…we’re in the 70’s. I was wondering if a cheap motel they’ll stay in now should look vintage to the THEIR time period? Like 50’s or 40’s style?

          I do like what’s happening between Ada and Millie. Could be a cool adult female friendship or at least uneasy alliance.

          OK, now we know that Millie didn’t move to Lawrence AFTER Henry went missing, because HENRY planted the jasmine at the garage for protection. (Then my confusion about the location is back as Henry was living in Normal, IL when he disappeared. Oversight? Or will be explained later?)

          A PHONE BOOTH at the Hippie Camp?! HA.

          I liked Lata’s lore book and the story about the monster. Nice and gruesome. Just would have liked to have a little explanation why an incredibly rare monster from Columbia is in Kansas.
          They could have made the monster lady way more scary, though! She was nothing like the drawing in the book. Her outfit and wig looked like a cheap Halloween costume. Either make her older and witchy looking OR make her more tree like. Her look didn’t work for me at all and took me out of the story.

          Also – sorry – the special effects were pretty weak. The hole in the ground looked better on SPN in season 5 (2010) than here. The vines never looked like they were actually penetrating to feed (or were they just supposed to tie the victims down?). Mary stabbing the monster at the end looked like she never gotten the stake through the fabric of the robe. ETC.

          UHM….wouldn’t there be water in those copper pipes John rips out from under the sink like the Hulk? Unless John cut off the main?

          It was very obvious that Millie was La Tunda. But I did like that we hear a little more about the chip on John’s shoulder about his dad leaving and him feeling like he wasn’t worth staying for.

          There was a misplaced “Audrey III” reference from Mary! Little Shop of Horrors – where the man-eating plant
          Audrey is from – didn’t open until 1986!!

          HA, I guess, John’s thing will be to have monster goo spewed in the face? First the zombie and then La Tunda’s green sap?

          Pretty intriguing end there. Someone coming for the essence of the La Tunda and drawing those crawly things to follow? Was that the same thing as in the New Orleans crypt? Were those Akrida? I hope not. They looked like shadowy crabs.

          I was again entertained and want to see more.

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          • kate38
              October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #22137

              “Didn’t like the fight between Millie and John. That seemed a little forced and he was so rude to her. She isn’t asking much…ONE CALL. But we need a little more back story about their relationship to judge what’s happening between them. We know already that he faked his age and signed up to the Marines without her say-so. He seems quite rebellious and bull-headed, which fits with his later self.
              And I loved the conversation between John and Millie at the end. It seemed real and warm and nuanced. Both actors did really well with it. And it made the fight at the beginning more understandable to me.”

              I agree, PNP 🙂
              I am getting better and more interesting chemistry between John and Millie than with John and Mary at this point! Like you, I really liked the conversation between John and Millie at the end. SO far, those two are my favorite characters, followed by Ada. The actress playing Millie is very convincing and sincere. She reminds me a little bit of Samantha Ferris.

              kate

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          • journalbookbinder
              October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21951

              I was unable to get on to comment right after the episode last night…but here I am the next morning! I hope we didn’t lose everyone else by episode two!!!! But YAY PigNaPoke!

              This one lost me.

              I was not feeling the plant monster. Just…not. It may have been based in folklore, but it felt silly and OVERLY COMPLICATED for Lata to explain for episode two! I am also having a bit of a hard time with John just DECIDING that he’s meant to join these strangers and hunt monsters right back from Vietnam. Like he has some kind of epiphany that this is what he was made for when he ONLY JUST found out about it.

              I’ve been thinking about what it is that’s bothering me. I think for me, the kind of TV I love most is when you start with a very small duo and we learn about THEM first…Sam and Dean…Mulder and Scully…we come to care about them and then, over time, they add more people we come to love like Bobby and Jody and Ellen…but I like having time to learn and care about and get invested in that core duo first. Here, it’s a large cast right off the bat and that feels more “Scooby Doo” to me (the van doesn’t help…I LIKE the van, but can’t stop thinking “Scooby Doo”!).

              Things I liked in this one included the more human moments between John and Mary while driving. Mary is less robotic (and the cast LOOKS different – older – in just the time that passed since the pilot filming and start of season filming) and more human and I liked her better as an actress in this one as she was given a BIT more to deal with. I also really am charmed by Carlos, but I still want more depth and a bit of darkness and not just funny comments all the time. The Age of Aquarius montage went on a bit long for me. But it also made Mary look a bit more human as she was laughing at Carlos’ dramatic rendition of the song.

              But I am having a big problem with the monsters. If you tell me in the first episode “we are fighting a thing that wants to destroy our world” – that just means nothing to me emotionally. A “thing” that we know nothing about except that Mary and John’s fathers may have known something about it and been out to stop it…I don’t know how to explain this because I loved on Supernatural when we got to follow Sam and Dean AS THEY LEARNED about how to combat monsters. That was great. And it seems like they are trying to do that here but it’s falling flat for me; maybe because I don’t have an emotional attachment to the characters with only two episodes? I don’t know. But it was A LOT of explanation from Lata about this plant monster and I just started to tune it out at some point!

              The plant monster was not scary to me. Not at all. I was hoping to see the origins of these hunters…how terrifying were vampires (for example) before they knew as much as Sam and Dean knew? I wanted to be truly scared FOR the characters and I’m just not. Mary seems to know so much and the others follow her so I’m getting less of a sense of urgency or having them ever be in true danger. Even the kind of psychological component of this plant monster – using family members and insecurities to get to the characters – did not make me feel much (unlike the times in Supernatural when monsters forced Sam and Dean to tell each other the truth and it was so painful).

              The “big bad” in a Gothic monk hood being followed around by a pack of spiders at the end…just NOT doing it for me!!!! I know they want to find a monster we’ve never seen before…but this feels like superhero universe stuff.

              This one fell totally flat for me. I was really disappointed.

              I did like the insights that Carlos had for Mary; how she was acting and how she hated that within her own family. I started to get the feel that they have a fair amount of history for him to know all that and I really liked that.

              Lata is unique…not at all afraid of gore (playing with the jaw on the zombie at that start…by the way…zombies??? COME ON! Way too overdone and never really done on SPN.)

              Mary is a little too enthusiastic about all this hunting for someone who wants to get out of it!

              PigNaPoke; that’s a GREAT observation…that low end motels back then would look like the 30’s or 50’s!!!!!

              Of course, not giving up on it two episodes in, but this one was a miss for me.

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            • journalbookbinder
                October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21952

                PigNaPoke…you aren’t the only one thinking Dean’s narration doesn’t really sound like Dean. It’s totally unnecessary.

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              • Stedan
                  October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21966

                  Here are my thoughts about episode 2.
                  I start with the positive. I actually enjoyed watching the episode. It felt like a solid motw episode and had imo even some Supernatural vibes. But I have to agree with PigNaPoke, the special effects seemed a bit cheap.

                  I also liked the interactions between the main characters, even when John’s reaction towards his mother was a bit harsh. I liked Mary a bit better this week, even when I’m still not really convinced that this is the Mary I pictured for at least 12 seasons. So far my favorite Mary was the version played by Amy Gumenick. She was badass too, but it didn`t feel so forced like with the Mary in the Winchesters, but also the resurrected Mary of the mothership. Carlos, Lata and Ada are great characters, I wished they would show us a bit of their background in the future.

                  Now I get to the problems I had with the episode, or maybe more with the whole story arch so far. The most important thing for me in a show is if I’m invested in the characters. I mean really invested. If I find that in a show I can overlook possible plot wholes and inconsistencies. I need to feel for the characters, fear for them, suffer with them. And I can’t say that I do that for the characters of the Winchesters, at least so far not. Maybe it’s to early, but for example, Supernatural had me already in the first episode. I think that might be a bit the problem because this is a prequel and if we believe what Jensen, Danneel and Robbie told us (I do) nothing will change the original Supernatural story, we already know that nothing is going to happen to John and Mary and most likely not to Samuel either (he is still around in 1973). So that takes a bit the tension / drama out of the story. I mean when Mary fears the monster got to John and hurries to the rescue, I don’t really feel her fear, as I know nothing will happen anyway. I just don’t see how this will work. Hopefully there will be some twists that make the story a bit more dramatic. Maybe they could focus a bit on the characters beside John and Mary. For instance, we don’t know what happened to Millie and of course not with Lata and Carlos as they are not in the picture in spn. Not that I would something to happen to them. But I`d say the show needs a bit drama.

                  About the litlle inconsitencies. PigNaPoke, seems like you were right about there being something wrong with them living in Normal. If Henry planted this vines, he must have been living in Lawrence too. Here goes my theory that they moved after he disspeared, lol.

                  Something else that I am curious about is, what is with Deana? I mean her husband is missing and her daughter now gone for weeks too and we hear nothing about her. I hope there will be something in the upcoming episodes or that will make no sense to me.

                  I agree with Dean sounding different, I couldn’t say if that is the texas accent. I probably wouldn’t notice an accent unless it is really obvious. @PIgNaPoke btw. I’m German too. But I can say, he doesn’t really sound like Dean.

                  Summarized, I`m still interested in the show and will keep watching and hope for some twists and a bit more drama.

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                • Stedan
                    October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21969

                    Any idea why text looks so weird ? I don`t know where this frames come from. When I type the text it looks normal.

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                  • journalbookbinder
                      October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #21991

                      Stedan – All really good comments and I feel similarly about how I was drawn in to SPN IMMEDIATELY and that has not been the case here as far as feeling immediately caring about the characters. But I do have hope and will keep watching. I am not sure what is going on with the comments you are leaving and the boxes. I will get with my wiki technical advisor and ask her; but I am understanding your comments in spite of the boxes! Can I ask what you are commenting on ? Cell phone? Laptop?

                      And yes, WHERE IS DEANNA in all this? With her daughter out hunting and Samuel missing?

                      Maybe it is harder to feel worry, etc. for the characters when we know what the future holds for them? We did not know for Sam and Dean. Good point.

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                    • Stedan
                        October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #22013

                        @journalbookbinder
                        I`m writing the comments on my laptop.

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                      • journalbookbinder
                          October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #22100

                          Stedan: I talked to our wiki tech guru Alice…it seems that for some odd reason, any time you type an apostrophe (‘), it switches to HTML code and does that weird box thing. She is trying to figure out why. But until then, just keep participating and I’ll go back in as an admin and I can edit those apostrophes to fix it. No problem. YOU are not doing anything wrong; it’s something on our end with posts from Europe and I’ll keep dropping in to fix the boxes until Alice can figure it out.

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                        • kate38
                            October 18, 2022 at 10:40 am #22117

                            I liked this one more than I liked the Pilot :).

                            I like the old-school Supernatural vibe a lot! The creepy case, the seedy motel room, the Fleetwood Mac shout out, and the era music are all wins. Unfortunately, I’m still getting a Buffy vibe that I DO NOT like (don’t get me wrong; I liked Buffy, but I don’t need to see that show again here), and I still REALLY do not like Mary. I like John, but am not getting much chemistry between him and Mary. Perhaps that will improve over time. Carlos is clearly the comedy relief, and Lata is the researcher-geek character. The ensemble reeks of being formulaic, but I expected no less from the CW. I will make an effort to look the other way.

                            Side note – John tried – presumably for hours – to break the vines holding him; but suddenly when the monster started killing someone else, he broke them in a few seconds and escaped? Okay, looking the other way on that, too.

                            I like Millie a lot and completely understand her position. Her son JUST came back from freaking Viet Nam, and now there’s a chance that she’ll still lose him the same way they lost Henry. I completely understand that. I like Ada, too. She understands both sides and is adult and reasonable enough to help bridge the gap. Considering where John is headed, her role will likely be critically important. If the entire cast was just the kids, I think I’d get bored. But characters like Millie and Ava, and eventually Samuel (and maybe Deanna?) should add enough adult balance to keep my attention.

                            I love that Henry planted a jasmine vine for “protection”, as if he knew something was going to happen to him.

                            I like that we’re meeting new monsters. I wish the original series had spent more time on urban legends and various monsters instead of visiting the same ones over and over again. Maybe we’ll see more variety in this show.

                            Nice teaser at the end, too. At first, I thought the hooded person might have been Samuel, but it’s clearly someone else. Anyway, it’s compelling enough to keep me watching 🙂

                            The Pilot was a C-minus for me, but this episode was a solid C-plus.

                            kate

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                        Let’s all talk about – The Winchesters – Teach Your Children Well (S1 E2)

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