Let’s all talk about The Man Who Would Be King (S6 E20)

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  • This topic has 3 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 4 weeks, 1 day ago by journalbookbinder.
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    • journalbookbinder
        November 1, 2023 at 5:18 pm #88270

        Heaven storyline. Probably why I don’t remember much about it so look forward to rewatching.

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      • PigNaPoke
          November 1, 2023 at 5:18 pm #97871

          This episode is difficult for me.

          GREAT dramatic story line, for sure, BUT….

          I know it’s MEANT for us to understand Cas more and his motivations and see that he needs help to see right from wrong. BUT what it does for me instead is REALLY turn me off from Cas. And I think, deep down, this episode broke my love for Cas pretty permanently.

          CROWLEY says it exactly right here (paraphrasing): “As long as the Winchesters believe the big lie of the good Cas, the righteous Cas, you (Cas) get to believe it.”

          But that’s not good enough. I need more here to make me see his pure intentions.

          He keeps saying he is doing this and that to protect his friends. But ALL of his actions have a kernel of self-service. None of it is self-sacrificing.

          He’s weak – not strong. At least weak-minded. Motivated by the fear of losing heaven, being beaten by Raphael and he doesn’t even come up with his own clever solution…Crowley does that FOR him…..SIGH. And he doesn’t have the wits to see the negative side of this?!

          Or AT LEAST to ask for help from the Winchesters and Bobby? Has he learned NOTHING from them!

          I’m also not a fan of the jumpy timeline. It’s confusing!

          I do LOVE Crowley here – Mark is fantastic.

          And JENSEN!!! That few seconds of non-verbal acting right after Dean finds out that Cas DID betray them is so freaking masterful. You see every nuance – surprise, loss of faith, deep disappointment, hurt and finally murderous anger. WOW.

          And Dean is right in saying later: “You’re a freaking child. Just because you can do what you want, you don’t get to do whatever you want.”

          Every moment in this episode where Cas is given yet another chance to listen and change course, he doesn’t. ON WHAT AUTHORITY???

          And then he’s ASKING GOD????? Who hasn’t spoken to him ever???

          He has close friends who are looking out for him RIGHT THERE. FAMILY who wants to believe in him and forgive him. And he’s choosing to ignore them? THAT is STUPID. (And making Sam’s wall crumble later on is unforgivable to me).

          Yeah, IF the intention was to make me feel for Cas’s hard situation and difficult choices….it failed. All it makes me feel is outraged that he learned so little and is so damn naïve.

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        • journalbookbinder
            November 1, 2023 at 5:18 pm #132935

            This one totally turned me off Cas too! And it kinds of stayed that way until the present day!

            I needed Cas to be the ONLY angel that wasn’t a dick (okay, also Anna). I needed him to make mistakes because he doesn’t understand people (makes sense that he would prioritize a civil war in heaven over human problems), but he has to always make an exception for Sam and Dean, and there’s lots of talk in this episode about how he does just that…but then he chooses to break pattern and betray them and I have never forgiven him either!

            I did love the way they caught him. Though it was a bit clumsy on his part to be caught spying just by letting something slip that was said. Watching it, they did GREAT with letting us know immediately that Dean’s hope that he was right about Cas was killed in that very second. SOOO good on Jensen’s part. I also loved the exchanged looks between Sam and Dean and Bobby.

            I don’t see as someone who could come back from that kind of betrayal. It was a bit painful to watch him play along like everything was all good, just so they could trap Cas and get the truth out of him. Cas IS acting like child. It was chilling when Cas asked Dean “or what” if he doesn’t stop what he’s doing and Dean told him he’d have to take him out. Cas tried the intimidation “you can’t, Dean, I’m an angel” and Dean reminded him that he’s taken down some big fish. Cas is not in the inner circle anymore.

            And he deserves it!

            The dissection scene with Crowley was pretty good and disgusting. Mark yelled too much, but otherwise, did a great job. Liked the horrible “Nazi experiment” quality it had where Crowley poked around inside Eve and the caged monster felt the pain. Good reminder how they connected through Eve but kind of pointless now that she’s dead. I did like how she laid eggs instead of giving birth to monsters.

            I left this one feeling like the truth is, Dean can only, and ever can after this, trust Sam and Bobby. Period.


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          • PigNaPoke
              November 1, 2023 at 5:18 pm #136382

              I am SO GLAD we see this the same way!!!

              Because for me everything Cas did later on was tinted by this episode in a way.


              Even eventually taking on Sam’s crazy wasn’t enough for me, because he risk Sam’s life (and Dean’s by extension) with the initial act of crumbling the wall and leaving him defenseless all to keep them out of her way….


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          Let’s all talk about The Man Who Would Be King (S6 E20)

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