Let’s all talk about – The Winchesters – Hey, That’s No Way to Say Goodbye

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    • journalbookbinder
        March 7, 2023 at 8:00 pm #44137

        The title is too long to include the episode number.

        All will be explained tonight according to Robbie Thompson.

        There’s a lot to explain.

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      • journalbookbinder
          March 7, 2023 at 8:00 pm #44144

          Okay, let me get this straight.

          The Akrida queen was once a hunter, just like Mary, who wanted out. She became disillusioned with humanity because so many hunters died saving regular people, then those regular people often wasted their second chance at life after they were saved by hunters…so she decided to join the monsters…the Akrida who Chuck made as a “failsafe” to destroy all of humanity everywhere if he, Chuck failed. If people saved by hunters weren’t grateful, she wanted everyone everywhere to die????

          What the hell kind of sense does that make?

          So Chuck failed and therefore dead Dean was afraid that the Akrida who were then unleashed would end up making their way to HIS world where Sam was still living out his life.

          So Dean interfered with alternate worlds, against Jack’s orders, because he was afraid the Akrida would reach still-alive Sam. Okay, THAT made me a bit emotional for the only time in this series.

          Seeing Jack and Bobby was an unexpected jolt. They were still “them”. That got to me.

          But…the rest of it…

          First of all, I am really really glad this was an alternate universe. I got very annoyed at the writers in the last few years of Supernatural for exploring the AU angle…as a way to bring back beloved AU versions of characters like Bobby and Charlie. I always thought that cheapened a great character. So this is THAT for the Campbells and Winchesters. Not the people we knew as Mary and John in SPN. I am glad of this because I couldn’t see any way that this show could jive with the show I love. It just couldn’t.

          It also makes sense to me why this whole spinoff felt nothing like Supernatural. It wasn’t. It was an alternate universe.

          I never grabbed onto these characters. I loved Millie and John. Especially their scenes together. They were the high point. I was interested in Carlos but thought he was not developed enough…and as a bisexual man in that era, not much of the downside/backlash realism was there at all. It felt like a fantasy of that time period as far as Carlos was concerned.

          I cannot figure out how this is the Robbie Thompson I love so much. I just DO NOT GET IT. The weird space crickets. The “humanity ending” danger that NEVER gave me any sense of dread or danger.

          I have a problem with “portals”. It seems like a far-too-convenient thing. Brings back dead people. Brings in otherworldly things (remember Kaia and her portal to a world that still had DINOSAURS???? Yeah, I hated that too.). Zapping between worlds was never a part of Supernatural (the later years) that I enjoyed at all. Time travel? To right a wrong? YES! That’s good. Or to TRY to right a wrong.

          I was majorly confused about why the Akrida queen needed the MOL “clubhouse”. I’ll have to watch that again…it was where she had to start opening the portal? And why was she opening the portal?

          Ada’s sacrifice of part of her soul seemed very anticlimactic.

          Lata’s buried “anger issues” also kinda fizzled. Maybe the Queen was just baiting her; trash talking her. I don’t know.

          I don’t know quite how to feel about this Winchesters experiment.

          It falls flat with me if it’s not OUR Winchester family from SPN. And it’s not. It’s an alternate universe like “Richchester” Sam and Dean.

          Drake was a natural. I could watch the John and Millie show all day long.

          Meg never cut it for me as Mary. Her acting was not subtle enough. She was not a good fit for me.

          I am very interested in Carlos and love that that character is part of this show. But there wasn’t enough depth or exploration. The show only scratched the surface on Carlos.

          Even though Lata was supposed to have surpassed anger issues, her character was too sunny and “one note” for me.

          There was WAY too much talk all the time about Mary getting out of hunting. I was sick of hearing about it.

          Tom Welling as Samuel was kinda wasted.

          My favorite scenes involved past SPN actors. I think my favorite was the one between back-from-the-dead Henry and John (and a bit of Millie there too).

          I thought Dean didn’t look or sound like Dean when we saw him in the first episode. I thought Dean didn’t sound like Dean in the too-flowery “you have to follow your heart” narrations. I would have preferred NO Dean narration. But Dean was Dean tonight at the end. And that was surprisingly hard for me. Seeing “new” Dean…seeing DEAN only made me miss him more. Thank God he SAID the word Sam. Having no mention of Sam thus far was painful and wrong.

          Even seeing Jack and Bobby being so very “Jack and Bobby” was a bit hard.

          Rowena was wasted on me. Her appearance made me feel nothing without Sam or Dean or Crowley for her to play off against. It felt like pandering to SPN fans as did using phrases like “hello boys” and showing us the Colt.

          This felt like a truly weird little experiment. I am most thankful that it did not mess with REAL SPN at all. They weren’t our John and Mary. So I can live with all of that.

          It was not the show I had so desperately hoped for. It had moments, but only moments.

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        • journalbookbinder
            March 7, 2023 at 8:00 pm #44146

            BTW, I did like the idea that the Impala is a valued weapon. That IT was meant to kill the Akrida queen – now it’s a rather mystical weapon from another realm since what kills the queen had to be “not of this earth”. And THIS Impala was “not of this earth”. I suppose the Impala that Sam kept in the garage as he grew old was also “not of THIS (Winchester AU) earth” – it was of our real SPN earth…

            But the Akrida as an idea…it’s a bad idea. There was no urgency! If mankind was about to be wiped out, they didn’t know it. No death before everyone was wiped out really, not mass chaos or fear…no urgency at all. So the “threat” never felt like any kind of threat to me at all!

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            • kate38
              March 7, 2023 at 8:00 pm #44219

              Well, it took a while, but this show finally started to gel for me around episode 10. The clown episode was silly, but the part that focused on John and the search for “mystery man” Dean held my interest.

              I still don’t care about Carlos, although he did have a decent fight scene at the end. Tom Welling just seems kind of tired, but he didn’t have a major role, so I guess that’s okay.

              I’m finally getting some chemistry between John and Mary, but most of that is coming from Drake. I think Meg is doing her best, but her acting is just not as strong as his.

              Millie and John are still my favorite characters, and they were amazing, as always. The Mystery Machine psychedelic van was not in this one — yay! I hate that van.

              I really liked the season finale — and I HOPE it doesn’t end up being the series finale. There’s clearly more story to tell. That’s the benefit of an open-ended finale (sigh…)

              The repeated “alterations” of lore have been bothering me all season long, but now that we know it’s an alternate universe, I’m less annoyed. I trusted Jensen and Robbie, although things got a little shaky for a while there. I think they creatively found a way to alter the story. That can’t have been easy.

              I could point out several moments that impressed me, but mostly it was the overall tone and sentiment that worked for me. The Supernatural finale left many fans emotionally devastated and sad. It left me furious, but negative emotions are negative emotions. Although Supernatural is in the “Horror” genre, it’s always been about hope, defying the odds, carving out your own destiny, and living to fight another day. The Supernatural series finale forgot all of that. The Winchesters season 1 finale did not.

              It’s clear that the two main characters evolved into a metaphor for Dean and Sam. Mary wanted to leave hunting, but was conflicted about that choice; John found meaning in the work and a connection to family that he valued. I love that, at the end of the episode, they decided to tackle their hopes and futures together, and they DRIVE OFF down the road TOGETHER into the unknown. Even the banter is reminiscent: “Driver picks the music; shotgun shuts his cake hole” is clearly metaphorical. I think Jensen is speaking to the fans with his OWN voice this time, and I’m so proud of him and of the message he has for us. It’s the message of hope that we SHOULD have gotten from the Supernatural finale, but didn’t. Kudos, Jensen, for righting that wrong.

              LOVED seeing Jim Beaver, as always! Liked seeing the Colt referenced again, and Dean’s warning to Mary about Yellow Eyes. I liked the connection to the Impala; the fact that we get to SEE Dean’s journal; and the fact that Dean didn’t just swoop in and save the day. Mary saved the day, and sacrificed her life doing it; but Dean saved Mary, which allowed “hope” to survive. That’s just perfect 🙂

              I don’t like jack and was annoyed to see Dean sort of bend to his authority. This is the same Dean who mouthed off to Chuck on a regular basis? But he stood in front of jack like a child waiting to be punished for staying out too late. It was just a sour reminder for me of how much jack’s story took over the final 3 seasons of Supernatural, and how much jack turned Dean and Sam into side characters. Sigh…I didn’t need to see jack again.

              Overall, I found more to like than to dislike. I hope we get a season 2 – even if it’s on a different network.

               

              kate

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            • Stedan
                March 7, 2023 at 8:00 pm #44241

                I have mixed emotions about the episode. The episode definitely had its moments. Ive loved seeing Bobby and Jack and of course Dean even when he didn`t look like Dean, more like Jensen.

                But I still dont get why they waited with the revelation that all of this is an AU until the finale. I think I would have enjoyed watching the whole series much more if I had known what I know now. I think I have mentioned it before that I didnt feel for John and Mary, mostly because I thought I  knew  nothing would going to happen to them. But now that turns out not to be true. They actually could have died. So there could have been some tension in the episodes, why didn`t they use that ?

                I liked the reason why Dean is doing all this, but this whole Akrida storyline still doesn`t really work for me.

                Dean not looking like Dean was bothering me a bit too. I get that that was more a logistical problem of Jensen, but does it make sense that a dead man technically without a body or vessel, grows his hair and a beard ? But I don`t want to sound petty about that. Do you even have a body in heaven ? I have to think about that.

                But what stilll my biggest problem is, because that is more important to me than even the storyline, I dont really care about the characters. I dont care about the John and Mary love story. I`m especially not a fan of Mary. Might be the acting, but I think it is also how she is written.

                Summarized I can say, I have enjoyed the episode, but more for the Supernatural eastereggs than for the Winchesters content. I think that will probably never be one of my favorite shows, no comparison to Supernatural, but I would watch it if there would be a season 2.

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                • kate38
                    March 7, 2023 at 8:00 pm #44244

                    Hi, Stedan!!

                    I agree with some of this! Aside from John and Millie, I’ve struggled to connect to these characters and it’s been hard to care what happens to them. I have to admit that I’ve really only liked the final 3 episodes of the season – and that’s probably because there was finally a connection to Dean and the origins of this series.

                    I spent most of the season being annoyed about the alterations in lore, like holy water working on vampires. It seemed so obviously “wrong” and indefensible. I couldn’t understand why Jensen, who is so meticulous, would change those things. I was relieved and happy for the big alternate-universe reveal in the season finale. You’re probably right that they could’ve stretched that reveal over the final 3 episodes, give or take, instead of springing it on us at the end. I guess I was so happy to get the reveal, I forgave them for how they gave it to us — LOL!

                    I enjoyed the episode so much that I found myself not wanting it to be over. It’s been a LONG time since Supernatural has made me feel that way. Even more than that, I appreciated the way the finale made me feel. I was bracing myself for a shocking or sad conclusion. Instead, I felt hopeful. I appreciated that. It was refreshing –not at all like I felt after the Supernatural series finale. Like you, I will also watch if we’re lucky enough to get a season 2.

                    kate

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              Let’s all talk about – The Winchesters – Hey, That’s No Way to Say Goodbye

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