Let’s all talk about – The Winchesters – Reflections (S1 E7)

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    • journalbookbinder
        December 7, 2022 at 12:59 pm #33070

        Apologies for this day-late thread. I was unable to access the wiki the day and night this aired due to an IP address issue. But it’s been figured out, so let’s hear what you thought about “Reflections”.

        Directed by Richard Speight Jr. and this is the first time we’ve gotten to see the dads.  Well, we already know John’s dad Henry from Supernatural, and thanks to SPN’s weird time-bending and the fact that Sam and Dean got to know a young Henry, the could use Gil McKinney again!  I must admit to chuckling at the memes on Twitter about how Samuel Campbell had a really hard year, since the flashbacks with Mitch Pileggi in the role in SPN and now Tom Welling in the role are virtually at the same time chronologically!

        I really loved Ada and Millie in this episode. Liked them together. It felt very real and natural.  FINALLY Millie was able to express some dismay about the more mystical aspects of what John has gotten into.  I felt she (and everyone else, including John especially) has been FAR too nonchalant about finding out about this world of monsters!  But I liked when Millie allowed as how she just saw Ada use a plant for a compass so she’s open to anything. I liked that tiny tiny bit of realism. It IS all very unbelievable and so far, these characters have not been acting enough like it’s unbelievable when they are introduced to it.  I was unsure how I felt about “herbal witch” (kinda) Ada at first, but I’m starting to like that she has this specialty and she does not seem like a kid to me (like the rest do) and I like that.  I liked Millie’s disbelief when John told her they were saving the world.  FINALLY some realism!

        I liked the plant on the map thing.

        Latika is still annoyingly right ALL THE TIME!  How the hell did she know anything about the Akrida?  I guess it was in the MOL research as Henry was familiar with this threat and the box was there to help diffuse this threat…but I was surprised at how easily the answers were there. Again. Like always. I really dislike that part of this show. I want to like Latika as she’s written as sweet and like-able, but her constantly cheerful demeanor doesn’t seem real and annoys the hell outta me.

        Mary. I don’t want to feel this way, but I’m starting to feel that Meg is not up to this role.  I am trying to give it a chance. I know Mary was written as wary and closed-off at first so I’ve been trying to roll with it and not dislike her because she’s not warm and fuzzy.  But that’s not the problem for me. The more I watch, the more I feel she’s just not a great actress. She delivers her lines with ZERO feeling. Or if she tries for feeling, it feels very forced.  Her “tough” lines like, “We gotta get in there and kill (fill in the blank)” feel cringe-worthy “bad” to me. It feels to me like she is phoning it in or is just not up to the role. I hate saying it. I hate thinking it. Jensen has talked about how they had to ask Drake and Meg to “dial back” the chemistry between the characters and yet, watching it, I see and feel NO CHEMISTRY AT ALL. None. They kissed in this episode and I felt nothing. As a “kiss me before we might die” moment it lacked any real depth of feeling and was hugely disappointing for me. I wish it had been a real, emotional, breakthrough moment and not a cheap impulse.

        Carlos. I feel like we get some real moments from him, and I REALLY like this character, but sometimes I have the feeling he’s giving a stage performance.  Carlos doesn’t feel organic to me. I want him to be a surprising badass at times. I like hearing more of his past.  He’s somewhat of a pacifist hunter from what we’ve seen (with the holy water water gun). I would love to see him go nuts on something! Show me another surprising side like the good surprise of him having been in the military (which they could have done so much more with!). He says here he killed the monster that killed his parents (while his parents were there trying to do something nice for him) and yet I’ve never seen him be a violent killer.  I’d like it if we could see that – maybe that would be why he’s chosen a less-violent path now – that THAT (or something else) was so bad it turned him away from it. I did like the sweet moment when he lamented the fact that this group of friends might break up if they succeed in ending the Akrida.

        John.  Aside from his pretty decent emotional discussion with Henry’s spirit (and Gil killed it and only made me miss our original, amazing show all the more!), he was kind of sidelined a bit in this episode. I still think he’s a decent actor. One of the better ones here. I liked his confrontation with Gil. I felt his “storming away from the seance table” was a bit overdone.  The music box thing was a truly labored explanation of why he chose THAT object, but I could go with it. It was realistic with parents fighting and a child thinking it was his fault. I’m coming back to revise this comment because the scene between John and Henry was probably the best of the episode. I felt like I didn’t get enough “John” here, but that scene was pretty great. Drake was convincing and vulnerable and really good there.

        Henry. I truly enjoyed Gil. He has those EYES – so sensitive-looking. Total bummer that Millie got almost no time with him! But at least he told her the important thing; that he loved her. I did like that the solution to the box was there all along…under the vines at the garage (right? That’s where the “battery” stone was? And we are to understand that that “stone” is somehow from this other world or other dimension where the Akrida came from?). Kinda liked the touch that practical Millie sold her wedding ring to fix the hydraulic lift at the garage. I liked seeing Gil so much, I didn’t want Henry to fade out!

        I DID actually enjoy the human-form DJ Akrida. We thought she was the queen, but now we’re not sure since the Akrida in the host body went to see “the queen” at the end when we thought this DJ woman was sucked into the box, right? That possessed person went to see the queen with the “monster essence” power. (Geez this sounds ridiculous!) But having the bad monster in a talking human form finally made her a little interesting to me. The “lab assistant” angle seemed incredibly dumb. So the Akrida can possess people after they get the three-pronged neck stick like Mary had…they possess them and have them dig (or whatever the hell they were looking for) – like “worker bees”.  I did find that explanation helpful; finally; that these creatures are a bit like drones serving a queen. If the queen goes, they go.  Still not sure WHY. Still not sure what they want with the earth or what they’ve done to other “worlds”. Are the space crickets the form they have before they possess someone?  Or are the space crickets like their version of a hellhound?  Still confused about that. Still annoyed that they chose to go “different” with monsters from another world.  UGH. Alien monsters.  Totally wrong for this prequel!!!!!  It’s like a damn video game and not like the horror that made Supernatural so great in the early years. Not at all what I was hoping for from this prequel.

        They blew their entire effects budget on the space crickets being sucked into the prison box.  Okay; I did chuckle at Carlos’ sexual innuendo about the box being a Latin word for “orifice”.

        The big monster story line is a total snoozefest to me thanks to the choice of monsters. Bad choice to build a season around. Leviathan-bad.

        Samuel Campbell.  We didn’t have time to get much of a feel for him.  Where was he being held?  And why?  And how could he just break free to show up to save the day with the box? I guess once the DJ woman was neutralized he was freed?  That was rushed and didn’t make great sense to me.

        Meg fighting in the big fight scene looked so bad and so fake it made me cringe. This would seem to be a basic skill that the actress playing Mary would need. I am not at all convinced by her onscreen fighting ability. It seems like a “cheap” choice to have them fight possessed humans, but not the space crickets that just kind of growl and threaten and hop around.  I would mind it so much less if the possessed people were demons!!!!!

        When the episode ended, I had the feeling like “this wasn’t the worst one”. But the more I think about it, the more these things bother me and the more I am feeling like Meg was a bad casting choice.  I feel like she’s ACTING. Not like she’s Mary.  Everyone else I pretty much accept in the roles. Still trying to like it. Still failing.  The huge gaps between episodes are not helping me either.

         

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      • PigNaPoke
          December 7, 2022 at 12:59 pm #33088

          It’s probably my overall mood or stress level, but I was supremely ANNOYED by this episode!!!

          There is SO MUCH potential, there are some REALLY nice moments, BUT the full package seemed SO labored.

          I had a really hard time hanging on to the GOOD parts to overlook the irritating parts and I kinda failed tonight.

          Let me try to stick with the things I actually liked first:

          The “two dads save the day” idea was really nice!

          Having Henry make an appearance was great and I like the way they did NOT talk about why Henry left for time purposes and Henry had some useful info to contribute. Bringing in the music box from the original SPN was a nice touch. I also loved that scene where Henry tells John he’s proud of him. Seeing Gil was wonderful. Drake did a very good job in the emotional scenes leading up to Henry apprearing and when they spoke to each other. The mix of incredulity and appreciation for getting to hear praise from his dad was heartfelt. (Of course, then I think about how we know from the original SPN that John never found out about any of this…)

          I liked the involvement of Millie in translating the “code” and the moments between Millie and Ada. The two mature women talking about the issues with the younger hunters was fun and SO RELATABLE!!!

          I also liked finding out yet a little more about Carlos, his love for music and about what got him into hunting, even though the whole thing got pretty much lost in this episode. Another short but nice moment was where he was lamenting that the gang might break up after finding Mary’s dad. JoJo seemed natural and sincere and believable, not flippant of comedic. It was refreshing. And I love his hair. LOL.

          I did like that Samuel showed up and was competent with the box to suck up the monster-crabs. I love Tom Welling and am excited to have another older character be part of this. I hope they give him something to DO.

          The actress playing Roxy is fun to watch!!

          RSJ did add some interesting camera work and the overall pacing was good in this episode.

          But I don’t want to have THAT be the most notable thing in the episode!!! I want to be CAPTURED by the story and the character’s hardship or triumph. And none of our core gang did much to that effect this episode.

          SIGH!!

           

          Now to the stupid:

          Right out of the gate I was annoyed. I know they were trying to launch straight into the action but giving us exposition of what John and Mary were doing at the radio tower WHILE “sneaking up” on it and talking on big bulky walkie-talkies was just DUMB.

          I am starting to lose hope that Mary has another level of emotion besides rushed, gruff, barking orders and acting rashly. She just doesn’t come across as smart and that really starts to bug me. She is NOTHING like Dean as much as they want us to see parallels. Her blank face, stiff manner and constant rushing into things and demanding answers that are not there is getting on my last nerve. Every time the gang tries to research she just wants to rush into action without the proper tools. It IS partially that Meg doesn’t convince me that there is more to Mary or that she can play that, but it is also how the writers chose to present her that doesn’t help at all to make her more likable or at least make me want to care for her struggle.

          And boy oh boy do they like to state the obvious on this show!! The dialogue often states blunt facts from before the last commercial break or the last episode or filler info that is totally superfluous if one paid a modicum of attention while watching the last episode. It’s almost as if they are trying to fill in a new audience every single week. Totally annoying.

          As much as I did like the moments I mentioned above, the ways they tried to get to these moments seemed mostly silly. Like to need Henry to appear via séance because no one could read his shorthand/code? Dumb.

          Why were they all SO amazed that the candles blew out during the séance? Nothing extraordinary happened. Seemed overdone and odd.

          Mary keeps grunting and screaming in every fight scene like one of those female tennis players who get on my nerves.

          Having John and Mary trap themselves in the warehouse and conveniently drop the box to make room Samuel to come into play and save the day? Dumb.

          I got ZERO chemistry from the moment before or during the John and Mary kiss. Z.E.R.O.  (So sad)

          The Akrida Monster story is also starting to lose me. I was interested in the Roxy character and what she meant to the whole arc but now it seems that she’s just a grunt, too, AND gone? And there is a queen? And a bunch of possessed humans are digging zombie like some weird portal out of a tunnel in a sugar cane field???? DUMB. UGH.

          Drake is doing a fine job as all along and he had some nice moments here again, but it’s like he’s acting in a vacuum most the time and that makes the whole things kinda hollow.

          Lata was mostly useless in this episode – or better she was used as bland background character or researcher.

          I am NOT a fan of them peppering in music we know or have an attachment to from SPN! The “Americana” theme is Sam and Dean for me….not overall Winchester Family. I cringed every time it came up in this episode.

          I really HATED the use of “Can’t find my way home” here either. It’s been used SO effectively on SPN in some pivotal moments, but here it seemed a cheap throwaway “easter egg” I didn’t want.

          PNP

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        • journalbookbinder
            December 7, 2022 at 12:59 pm #33139

            PigNaPoke: “Can’t Find My Way Home” as done by Blind Faith (and used in the Route 666 SPN episode) might be my favorite song of all time. All time.  I too disliked its use here. When I had an overall positive feeling at the end of this episode, I later realized it was only because I was feeling emotion for Supernatural…I felt a bit manipulated with the constant “Americana” (I just kept wanting to see Sam and Dean) and “Can’t Find My Way Home” (even if it WAS of that era and we had all that music on SPN because it was John’s music that Dean adopted!) and the appearance of Gil. I felt emotion because of Supernatural and the feelings I have around all of THOSE things. NOT emotion for this show. Though I enjoyed the Millie and Ada scenes immensely (as I said, they finally had just a SPECK of real reaction with Millie’s admitting this is all really weird to a regular person), and I thought Drake’s scene with Gil was the strongest part of this one, the rest was just in the way!

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          • Stedan
              December 7, 2022 at 12:59 pm #33344

              What can I say, maybe I had to high expectations for this episode with all that had been teased before. I was really looking forward to them finally finding the dads, I always liked Henry in Supernatural and was looking forward to seeing him again.  I was hoping there would finally be an explanation for the canon differences to the mothership. At least a little something. But I must say I was quite dissapointed by this episode.

              Not much has changed, there is not one character I really care about. I like some of the characters, but I do not love them, I do not really care.  Not like I cared for Sam and Dean since episode 1. Maybe I’m expecting to much. I agree with all you have said about Mary, or better about Meg. I have never been the biggest Mary fan in Supernatural either, but I had sympathy for her. But Meg’s Mary is just annoying. And there is no chemistry between her and John at all.

              For me at least the motw part was ok. I also liked the glimpses into Carlos history. But this is pretty much everything I felt positive about.

              Something what also keeps bothering me is, that Dean doesn’t sound like Dean. I never thought I would say that. But I would rather not have Jensen narrating this. At least not if he doesn’t sound like Dean.

              Now I hope the second part of the season will get better. Hope dies last.

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          Let’s all talk about – The Winchesters – Reflections (S1 E7)

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