- This topic has 15 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 6 months, 1 week ago by kate38.
October 28, 2020 at 10:11 am #3035
Last week was a nice, mostly stand-alone episode, but these last four (or at least the next three – it’s been said the very last episode is not as connected to this season’s story arc) are probably going to be all-in on the final showdown with Chuck. From the promo photos, it looks like this week will have a lot of our heroes standing around and listening to other characters (Amara) talking and we get to meet THE Adam and Eve! They look like they are going to be comedic characters. I do love the promo photo of Amara lounging in the bunker with a beer, sitting on the table. My guess is that this episode will perhaps reveal more of the final plan; exactly what Jack is going to have to do to take down Chuck (and how Sam and Dean will try to keep him from sacrificing himself). In spite of last week, I still think they will try to save him.
As we left them last week, Sam FINALLY got pissed about being left in the dark again by Dean; something I thought was long overdue, though I’m annoyed at the writers that they feel they somehow STILL have to have that division between the brothers for drama when going into the final showdown. Ugh. I guess it IS in-character (keeping secrets) but I had really hoped they were going to let them evolve past that BEFORE now for once and for all.
October 29, 2020 at 9:09 pm #3081kate38Keymaster
I’ll have to rewatch, but this one was weird.
The part I enjoyed most was the crying, hallway scene between Dean and Sam. It made perfect sense and was well written and acted.
I love Rachel Miner, so that was another part I enjoyed. I also like Emily Swallow, and like how Amara tried to come to humanity’s defense. It reminded me of Metatron at the end of his story arc.
I hope Cas doesn’t die. And it feels like they’re setting up a showdown between Chuck-Amara and Billie. That might be interesting.
The weird and negative stuff sorta spoiled this one for me:
I don’t get how somehow Sam and Cas came up with a spell to bind Chuck in the bunker. OR was that simply part of Chuck’s illusion so he could convince Amara that the Winchesters had betrayed her?
Although I agree with Dean that Jack is not family, it feels like the writers tried too hard to introduce last-minute conflict and drive a sudden wedge between Dean and Sam. And Dean suddenly pulling a gun on Sam also seemed over the top. He might throw punches, but pulling a gun?? Are we supposed to believe that was Chuck’s clunky writing again? By the way, Dean got SOOOOO much hate on Twitter for saying Jack is not family. The truth hurts, I guess 🙂
Adam and Serafina were just plain weird — like over-the-top, cut back on the hallucinogens weird. The Adam’s rib thing was a nice reminder that these writers do remember something from the bible. But, again, it felt like the writers were trying too hard to do something with Adam and Serafina. It didn’t work for me.
Next week looks pretty intense. I hope it’s a good one.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by kate38.
October 29, 2020 at 9:54 pm #3083
I was NOT feeling this one (except for Sam and Dean’s heartfelt exchange in the hallway – they always make me feel it. Always. So good.) and I feel like I should be feeling everything at some core level – after all these years and with all of existence on the line, but it feels…too small!
Chuck CAN do calm-scary, but angry is not working for him! It makes him LESS scary!
So I guess they are being used by every entity (or every entity is attempting to use them) from God to Billie to The Empty to Adam and…Serafina (????). Everyone wants to use them to get their own revenge or advance their own eternal career.
God KILLED Jack once so how is it this huge climax to have God try to kill him again? I did not get the ending. God thinks they’ll kill each other after Jack dies? What?
Everyone here is a very good actor. So the reason it fell flat must be the script or directing or…why didn’t I feel more?
Loved the exchanges between Sam and Cas. Loved Sam throughout. Smart and brave. Dean was written as too angry and single-minded. He’s so much more than that by now. And Dean pulling a gun on Sam just felt competely and totally wrong. Fighting? Even physically fighting? Okay. Dean would never point a loaded gun at Sam (unless Dean was not himself). Never. If they were trying for drama, it didn’t work because it was so out of character.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by journalbookbinder.
October 29, 2020 at 10:03 pm #3085
Kate, I could see you cheering Dean’s “he’s not family” speech from here.
So lame that all powered-up Jack got to do was hold his stomach and cower in the hall for the back half of the episode.
October 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm #3086
INTENSE is the word of the week for me! PHEW!!
Overall I liked it it a lot, BUT I also have a few major hang ups.
I go character by character to sort my head space out:
JACK – I appreciate how he has accepted his “role” the way he understands it showing some real growth with this. Even though I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop on Billie (and BOY DID IT!!!) Jack acted in a selfless manner here and simply was ready to take one for the team who has protected and nurtured him for much of his short life. I also felt touched by the scene between Dean and Jack where Dean thanked him for doing what it was planning to do to save the world and give him and Sam a chance at a “life”.
DEAN – here lie my MAJOR issues. I understand and can believe that Dean is so freaking TIRED of the dance and overwhelmed by the thought that he can’t escape the hamster wheel. BUT…BUT…BUT!!!! HE WOULD NEVER PULL A GUN ON SAM AND COCK IT!!!! NEVER!!! That was so out of character it bothered the living daylights out of me!!!!!! Especially after he says to Jack that he is looking forward to a life with Sam AFTER. Really? From that he goes to ready to shoot his brother in order to kill God? OR was THAT part still God’s writing? God’s plan? IF that was it then I needed a break in Dean some indication that he had no control over his action at that moment.
I do appreciate Dean being ready to do the hard thing and accompany Jack on his last mission. Dean never shied away from the hard decisions.
And, of course, Jensen was PERFECT at acting it all out.
SAM – BIG kudos to Jared for this episode!!!! He did amazing and I was riveted to ALL of it! His anger, his frustration, his tenacity, his quick wit in lying to The Empty, his heartbreak and the way he convinced his brother not to shoot him…all very well done! Sam’s arc was great, too. LOVE that he figured it out regarding the Empty and Billie’s plan!! Our smart Sam! Loved how he stayed behind to research, but ultimately HE was more important to the plot advancement than even Dean here.
CAS – yeah, he was there, too. I didn’t get much from him in this. He was supportive of Sam and a nice scene partner. I would have liked him to get involved a little to convince Dean NOT to kill his brother!
AMARA – loved that she made a real turn. Her essence must have changed, too, as she can hold a flower now without killing it. I really enjoyed the scenes with Chuck and how Amara took it on herself to try and convince her brother to let this world live, to show him what wonderful thing he created. I am a little surprised that she simply believed Chuck later when he said the Winchesters lied, but the story was PACKED and had to move along so I can forgive that.
CHUCK – oh, Chuck….you petulant child! Very well played by Rob!! I love that he got thwarted AGAIN by the Winchesters in the end when they did NOT behave the way he planned. I also really enjoyed how that last bit was cutting back and forth between the drama in the hallway between the brothers and Chuck and Amara. It kept me on the edge of my seat.
Issue I had with their interaction:
Are we to believe that Amara willingly “joined” Chuck? Or that he absorbed her against her will?? And if the latter is true….why did he need 4 archangels to contain her last time?? And if she is part of him now….can she inact some of HER will?
I did like the special effect of Chuck with one blue and one black eye!
THE EMPTY – she/ he/ it is a little too naive for me, but at least it’s consistent. It JUST wants to go back to sleep. OK, we get it. I also appreciate it that they let us know that she can’t go to earth unless summoned. Loved to see Rachel.
BILLIE – WOW….well, there you have it. DEATH is the villain?! Interesting twist and a real conundrum and a good adversary…..BUT…BUT…BUT….are we to believe that this was ALWAYS Death’s plan? Adam said that he was kept alive (I think he said by Billie??) to take his revenge on God???? But 30,000 years ago that would have been the original Death, no? Or did Billie the REAPER make these plans all along? I can’t believe that as it was said only Death can read God’s book. I have an issue with that, but I am willing to wait for more explanation.
So, now what?? If Death wants a reset, which means ALL who were dead are dead again…..BOTH Winchesters would drop dead immediately, right? And Death said they have to reap God….but do we still want that now? And if Death has the power to RESET everything and God wants that, too, are they both on the SAME side now? And is Amara simply gone now? Or can she “pop” back out and claim a will? WHAT A MESS – but an interesting one.
Other things I really liked:
– ADAM being a hippie. HA, funny.
– Adam’s rib being super powerful as an spell ingredient or artifact was a good idea
– Sam and Cas digging through the bunker’s treasures. I have to watch again but I’m sure there were a few easter eggs in that. Was that the grail?
Definitely need a rewatch of this one….WOW
October 29, 2020 at 10:23 pm #3087
October 29, 2020 at 10:28 pm #3090
I really do not get and never have gotten the point of The Empty. Nope.
PigNaPoke – “What a mess” – AMEN !!!!!
You say wow, I say WTF and it could have been SO much better.
October 29, 2020 at 10:34 pm #3091
Because it was SO out of character for Dean, I know think more and more that it WAS Chuck’s writing to the point where SAM convinced Dean that this is wrong and that he had to listen to Sam and put the gun down.
I can totally accept that as an interesting plot point, but I just wish that was made more clear in the last scene, maybe with Dean apologizing or looking stunned at his own action….
HOWEVER, we may still get that next week as we were left with a cliff hanger.
I really did enjoy this one despite the mess and confusion. I want to believe that was intentional.
October 29, 2020 at 10:38 pm #3092
I wonder if we WILL loose the bunker after all…..if Jack’s implosion cannot be stopped I can see him staying behind while the others flee up top…..
I would HAAAAAATE THAT!!!!!
I really want the bunker to remain as a reminder of the Winchesters legacy and the promise it holds for all future generations of hunters and possible MOLs.
But then maybe someone or something can teleport Jack out of there….
October 29, 2020 at 10:43 pm #3093
Well, they WERE still shooting ep 19 with Adam/Michael in the bunker…so I doubt Jack’s mushroom cloud will take it out. I don’t think Jack will die. I think Cas will sacrifice himself to save Jack.
October 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm #3094
The more I think about this episode the more I feel that the writers are putting us (viewers) in the same position the characters must be feeling at this point of the story – confused and messed up and doubting all of it and worried and anxious and having slim hope for a good outcome.
That all sounds BAD but I find it interesting and engaging storytelling AS LONG as it all pans out at the end. HAHAHA
Right now, I’m curious to see what’s next and I won’t give up hope that we will get a fitting end.
October 29, 2020 at 10:49 pm #3095
OH, that’s right, JBB!! Thanks for reminding me. I was very worried for the bunker.
October 29, 2020 at 10:50 pm #3096
I now have the most hope for the very last episode that sounds like it will be mostly unrelated to the current story line.
I liked last week.
October 29, 2020 at 11:04 pm #3097
Regarding Dean saying that Jack is NOT family…..he didn’t completely outright dismiss Jack as family in this episode, which I appreciated. Yes, he said it, but he also said “not like Sam or Cas” which to me means that there are levels of family and that is believable to me.
I do believe Dean CARES about Jack but I also understand that he doesn’t love him the same way he does Sam or Cas. Jack hasn’t been around long enough, proven himself enough, had too many ups and downs in his short existence already AND killed Mary. There’s a lot of stones on the negative side of the scale for Dean here.
I get all that.
STILL, Dean was right by Jack’s side when he goes down in the bunker and that shows clearly that it’s not all black and white for him.
Dean is complicated and I appreciate that it’s a consistent character trait. There is ALWAYS another layer to him.
October 29, 2020 at 11:05 pm #3098
We need to get you guys your avatars back.
October 30, 2020 at 5:30 pm #3151kate38Guest
“Chuck CAN do calm-scary, but angry is not working for him! It makes him LESS scary!
I agree, JBB!! I think Chuck is scariest when he’s calm and keeps his voice low and gravely. I guess there’s just something about Rob that makes him more cute and less scary 🙂