kate38
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
So…
What happened to the Winchester doppelgangers?
Sam locked up the bunker forever? He didn’t leave the key OR the brothers’ legacy to anybody? Such a waste.
Are we to assume that all the AU hunters who got zapped away came back? I get that with COVID they couldn’t bring people to Vancouver to film, but a phone call from Jody or Donna, to confirm they’re alive, would’ve been nice.
kate
Dean’s death scene was well done, but kinda long. It felt like they were drawing it out to make it more emotional, but it was already emotional, so it just seemed too long. I let myself go there, but I felt manipulated, so that stopped it from being as sad as it was supposed to be.
“How does a being that creates complex beauty and a soul for guidance, remorse and compassion have none of these attributes. As Chuck was retconned into an egotistical psychopath, he seems to be the antithesis of soul and beauty.”
This is one of my main gripes with the Chuck-is-a-villain story line. I’ve thought long and hard about whether my own beliefs are shading my judgement. I don’t think they are. I’d be TOTALLY on board with Chuck being a villain if it was done in a way that made sense for the character. The Chuck from season 5 was on their side, but the Chuck from seasons 14 and 15 were not. Why? What changed? We’re just supposed to believe that after countless millennia, he just got bored? What?! He’s a writer, and writers lie. Huh? When you take the most powerful entity in creation and turn him from an affable hermit prophet into a super villain, we deserve a back story and an explanation. We haven’t gotten one.
“Perhaps an audience of binge watching 13 year olds or perpetually disastified adults can also accept this childishly hateful inconsistency, but I can not.”
I’ve been thinking this, but I don’t know if I’ve said it in a post. It does feel like season 15 is not written for somebody like me. It feels like they’ve abandoned the “old guard” and have decided to write stories that clearly appeal to a different audience. It might sound selfish, but I do sort of feel abandoned. I used to connect to this show, its characters, and their stories, but now I don’t. Maybe that’s by design. It’s their show and of course they can do whatever they want with it, but if I’d tuned in to Supernatural for the first time in season 15, I’d never have watched the show past one or two episodes. That saddens me.
“This season has been a comic book lacking vision, depth and intelligence, with characters that are caricatures of themselves. No growth, save Jack, and only minimally, as everyone mostly sat around waiting for someone to tell them when and what to do with respect to an over the top mustache twirling villain.”
Also very true. But it makes more sense if your earlier comment is true. This final season wasn’t written for the same audience as the previous 14 seasons were.
On the up-side, there’s no point in targeting a younger audience unless you plan to DO something once you get their attention. Maybe there’s a long-game marketing strategy playing out? I read that Jensen and Danneel have started a production company, so maybe there’s something in the works. Movie? Who knows. I just hope there’s a point to all this and that they didn’t destroy this show for nothing.kate
Hey, PNP 🙂
I agree with all of this. The bunker has been their home and fortress for almost half of the whole series (season 8, right)? I hope it doesn’t get destroyed at the last minute just for dramatic effect. I hope it gets treated with respect.
kate
“I find it peculiar that the chief criticisms of Chuck, hands off and doesn’t answer prayers, to be perfectly acceptable for Jack to have the same outlook. Of course they did negate the hands off aspect of Chuck by retconning him into a hyper obsessed control freak.”
I thought the same thing when he said that. What’s the difference between “abandoning” humanity and being “hands off” so humanity is left alone to decide it’s own destiny? Po-‘tay-to, Po-‘tah-to.
kate
“A child running creation is better than an abusive adult? As long as the child is under the auspices of a dark destructive force, then everything should be okay? Why does this strike me as something sinister? Why was Chuck retconned to be hateful. Why does the dark destructive force who sucked out souls appear so kindly, old lady and the gingerbread house kindly? Jack’s 3 years old. There is no one who hasn’t manipulated him. Maybe it is the mother side of me that finds this resolution creepy.”
I agree with all of this! Everybody gets a redemption arc or at least some character growth except for God???? Amara went from being a dark, destructive force to pleading on humanity’s behalf last week (much like Metatron did at the end of his redemption arc). Jack (if you swallow his story with a spoonful of honey) went from being a naĂŻve toddler to being god himself? It’s stupid character growth, but at least it’s character growth. The same writers chose to leave Chuck in the toilet as a character — no growth, no redemption, no depth to his story, no nothing. Somebody in the writers room must really hate god.
“In my story, Sam and Dean helped save the world from Darkness. The earned God’s praise, always had his love, and are now on a beach dating hula girls.”
I like your story better already, Shannon!
“It seems there is a very sick mind running this show. Fortunately, childish and shallow enough to do no real harm. A good show has been destroyed with intent. The brothers neutered and put in their place, first by God the cruel writer, then by God the three year old.”
Hi, Shannon —
You’re not wrong. It does feel like the Winchesters have once again taken a back seat to the other characters. In this episode, their main role was to be beaten into putty so Jack could Hoover more energy from Chuck. Sigh…
Chuck is still on the board, though. And Jack has no idea what to do with all the power he has — which makes him a perfect candidate to be corrupted by it. I’m hoping that the reason they wrapped this part of the story up this week is so that next week can be more about the brothers.
kate
“I am very very afraid they’ll die next week. Bobby’s voice saying “see you on the other side” in next week’s preview put the fear in me as did the fact that this week was not particularly emotional for me and we’ve been told we’ll need every tissue in the world.”
Hey, JBB —
If you’d asked me a month ago, I would’ve said I’d be sad if the brothers both died. Now, I don’t feel like I care anymore. Their story has gone so off the rails that it doesn’t matter to me. Maybe that’s a blessing.kate
“Also, I thought the Empty said that God had no dominion in her realm? But didn’t Lucifer say that GOD freed him?
PNP”
I think this plot point went out the window a long time ago. Every time Castiel got resurrected, Chuck had to pluck him out of the Empty to do it. So, clearly Chuck has some dominion there.
kate
“I agree with you that if we are to believe that Jack makes a good next God, they should have come up with a more specific way to absorb energy.
I know they were trying to allude that Jack is evil or deadly or out of control but it felt lazy and clumsy on the writers part.
They could have made Jack to go the woods somewhere and suck a patch of land dry. Or make it seem more intentional on the planter part.
WHEN did they figure out that Jack was a power hoover? Dean states it so matter of factly. Did I miss where he got that understanding from?
ALSO – I did not like that they made Dean so adamant about Jack not being family etc just a couple of episodes ago, but now be all invested in him again. I really wish they would have kept it more even on the throughline.
PNP”
All good points, PNP!
And we’ve had more than our share of Dean whiplash this season. Jack isn’t family, but two episodes later, his name is carved into the table at the bunker? Dean wants to kill Amara? Wait, no he doesn’t. He tells her that he’d never hurt and they end up asking for her help. Dean was also angry with Cas for WAY too long at the start of this season. And do we even need to mention Dean pulling a gun on Sam? I’ve said it before — it feels like the writers don’t like Dean very much this season, and they don’t seem to understand who this character is at all.kate
“The montage was also stupid because the toast “all we lost”, surely meaning all we lost and cared for….but then there are images of people they certainly don’t want back, like Lucifer, Abbadon, Metatron. Ruby etc…
And if it was meant to show fan favorites then some were missing like Cain, Zachariah, Frank.It didn’t work either way.
PNP”
I agree, PNP!! If they were gonna create a montage, it should’ve made more sense than what we got. Like JBB said, I didn’t “feel” the ending or the montage at all. In fact, I didn’t feel any emotion in this one at all. Jared had a tear in his eye when Jack left, but I didn’t feel that, either.
kate
Question about Jack: If he absorbs energy without meaning to (i.e. he killed flowers in a planter without meaning to), why didn’t he absorb energy/life force from Dean and Sam?
Also, if he can’t even control his powers enough to not kill flowers in a planter, how can he somehow control his powers enough to be a god?
kate
This is disjointed, but here goes…
Sorry, but that was weird and stupid. Jack being the new “god” is just stupid. And are we supposed to believe that Chuck is just gonna let that slide? Chuck may not have Jack’s powers, but he’s smarter than Jack and more resourceful. Maybe I’m in denial, but I don’t think this is over. If there are no perils left, then what’s the point? For all those folks who wanted the Winchesters to die in a blaze of glory, who’s around to kill them now?
Question: Once Betty was the new Death, shouldn’t Lucifer have needed the scythe to kill her? He just snapped his fingers. Did I miss something?
Also, I’m assuming that since all the world’s people are back, that Jody, Donna, Bobby and the other hunters are, too. I get that the show couldn’t bring all those actors into the episode because of COVID, but it would’ve been a nice resolution to at least hear somehow that all those people are okay.
I did like a few things about this one:
Unpopular opinion, but I like Lucifer and didn’t mind seeing him back – even if only for a few scenes.I’m glad they didn’t spend a lot of time dissecting what happened between Dean and Cas in the last episode. That would’ve just been awkward and would’ve made the episode even weirder.
Since they went to all the effort of bringing Michael and Adam back, I’m glad that their story got resolved.
It’s good that the Winchesters feel “in charge” of their own stories and their own future. That’s been a recurring theme since last season, so it feels important to resolve it.
I’m glad they didn’t kill Chuck. It’s bad enough that theology has been so badly battered this season, and a toddler is the new “benevolent” god. But actually killing god would’ve been over the top. I’m glad that somebody in the writer’s room still has the ability to be logical.
Anyway, I had LOW expectations for this one, and I have even LOWER expectations for next week. Like Chuck said, endings are hard, and there’s no way everybody is going to be happy. I feel so disconnected from what this show has become, though. Hopefully somebody out there will get the ending they want.
kate
“I found the acting obvious and distracting. Of course, the actor hasn’t had much to do but fret over Jack, for the last few years. His acting has been limited to redundant lines about Jack’s goodness. And his facial expressions are largely eye rolling and pursed lips. Getting an emotional monologue and a death scene overloaded Misha’s. I am so glad he is dead. I used to love Castiel. But, I haven’t been able to tolerate him for some time.”
You’re not wrong here, Shannon —
It’s unfortunate that Castiel has been “reduced” to being Jack’s nurse maid and baby sitter for the past few seasons. I get that the writers wanted to make him more human and more relatable, but it’s a shame that it’s gotten easy to forget he’s even an angel. When he does do something that shows us his powers, it’s almost a surprise. It shouldn’t be that way.kate