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  • kate38
      March 9, 2023 at 6:22 pm #44244

      Hi, Stedan!!

      I agree with some of this! Aside from John and Millie, I’ve struggled to connect to these characters and it’s been hard to care what happens to them. I have to admit that I’ve really only liked the final 3 episodes of the season – and that’s probably because there was finally a connection to Dean and the origins of this series.

      I spent most of the season being annoyed about the alterations in lore, like holy water working on vampires. It seemed so obviously “wrong” and indefensible. I couldn’t understand why Jensen, who is so meticulous, would change those things. I was relieved and happy for the big alternate-universe reveal in the season finale. You’re probably right that they could’ve stretched that reveal over the final 3 episodes, give or take, instead of springing it on us at the end. I guess I was so happy to get the reveal, I forgave them for how they gave it to us — LOL!

      I enjoyed the episode so much that I found myself not wanting it to be over. It’s been a LONG time since Supernatural has made me feel that way. Even more than that, I appreciated the way the finale made me feel. I was bracing myself for a shocking or sad conclusion. Instead, I felt hopeful. I appreciated that. It was refreshing –not at all like I felt after the Supernatural series finale. Like you, I will also watch if we’re lucky enough to get a season 2.


        November 26, 2022 at 8:30 pm #30811

        “The opening sequence of this one is perfect. Them apart…kind of mirroring each other actions but doing completely different things. Sam slicing lemons in the bar and Dean slicing open a vampire. Sam cleaning the bar and Dean cleaning the blood off the Impala…all with “Simple Man” playing; it’s one of my favorite opening or montage scenes of the entire series.”

        You’re right, JBB. That opening montage is Supernatural perfection! The only one I might enjoy more is “One Way or Another” in season 6, when the brothers are trying to encounter hazards so Fate will try to kill them. That one was hilarious :). But, “Simple Man” is the perfect choice for the montage in this episode.

        Wow, funny that you remember that shirt from the Christmas episode. But of COURSE you would, because that ep is one of your favorites. I remember it from “Metamorphosis”, when Dean confronts Sam about using his psychic powers. It is a very memorable shirt.

        Like you, I had a question about the holy oil scene. They “stole” a patient and set up that circle at sunrise; then, they were presumably at the hospital all day, because it was night time when they got back to the house. What kind of crap hospital doesn’t notice a patient MISSING for a full day? To answer your question, I suspect setting up another circle at the house was a backup plan in case the hospital thing didn’t work. Just my guess…

        I didn’t really like Lindsey — I don’t know if it was the actress, the character, or both. I agree with you that the scene when she told Sam about her addiction seemed very genuine. Aside from that, I found her too pushy and overbearing. I get that she liked the guy, but something about the way she pursued him was a turnoff for me.

        I liked Demore Barnes (I think that was his name) as Raphael, too! When he spoke, he was almost robotic and very creepy. Nicely done!


          November 26, 2022 at 8:13 pm #30807

          “Simple Man” is the first song I ever learned how to play on guitar, and this opening montage is the moment I fell in love with that song. I love everything about that montage – the parallels between the brothers’ lives is SO well done! And that final scene when Dean looks over at the empty seat where Sam should be…sigh…the first time I saw that, I got a lump in my throat.

          I NEVER, NEVER get tired of seeing Dean and Cas together! I am NOT a Destiel person and I think the idea of Destiel is absurd, but the natural chemistry between these actors is undeniable. The “personal space” and brothel scenes crack me up every time.

          I do miss how powerful angels used to be in the early seasons. One archangel manifests, and it blacks out the entire east coast. And being inhabited by an archangel is supposed to leave you a drooling mess, but somehow Dean and Nick both escaped that fate.  I also miss when Castiel used to be a bada&#, and when Luci used to be somewhat frightening. I get that the writers had to power down the angels a bit, but they ended up being almost completely different characters — and not in a good way.


            November 26, 2022 at 8:10 pm #30805

            Love the music choices in this one — “Long Way from Home” in the recap, and “Spirit in the Sky”! I MISS all the classic rock that used to be in the early season episodes!

            Interesting question (in retrospect, of course): When the boys were children, Bobby is the one who gave the amulet to Sam to give to John; he told Sam it was “very special”. Dean wore that amulet every day for YEARS – did Bobby forget what it was for?

            I love ANY time we get to see Rufus, even if he and Bobby didn’t have any screen time together. “In my experience, demons come at you slower if they’re in a body with no limbs.” LOL!! I also really like the choreography of Rufus’ fight with Dean on the porch. SO entertaining to  watch!

            I like the scene between War the horseman and “Save your protests for your brother.” It really exposed the motivations behind Sam’s behaviors and choices in season 4. In a more global sense, it forced Sam to admit to himself that the whole thing about killing Lilith was just an excuse, and that it was really about Sam’s desire to feel powerful. We see even more exposition in “Fallen Idols” when Sam admitted that being with Ruby made him feel in charge and powerful, so that was one of the reasons that he chose her over his family.

            That final scene on the mountain is one of my favorites in the whole show. Not only is the scenery spectacular, but the brothers are both being honest with each other, which was refreshing after all the turmoil in season 4. Sam finally admitting his issues, and Dean finally admitting that he has been trying to pretend that Sam is okay and that their relationship isn’t as broken as it is. And both brothers accepting that – at least temporarily – it’s better if they aren’t together. I love how Sam touches the Impala one more time, as if he doesn’t think he’ll see her again. And Dean’s expression when Sam walks away is heartbreaking. I can never watch that scene just once.


              November 25, 2022 at 8:55 pm #30500

              Hey, Stedan 🙂

              I feel your pain…

              I SO want this show to succeed, for Jensen’s sake. But I’m worried about season 2 at this point. Mark Pedowitz is no longer in control of the CW, so (unlike Walker) this show will have to succeed on its own merits. I hope enough Supernatural fans are hanging in there to give it decent ratings. I know people who are hate-watching Walker just to support Jared, so hopefully Jensen will benefit from comparable loyalty from the fandom.

              As you and JBB have both said, I don’t “care” about most of these characters yet. Part of my issue is that, aside from John and Millie, they seem too much like caricatures for me to care about them. To me, Lata and Carlos lack any depth, and Mary is just plain unlikable. Another issue is that they aren’t really interacting in a convincing way with one another. With a large ensemble cast, I need sincerity and communication in the performances. Otherwise, it’s like a band or a string quartet where everybody is just playing their parts, but nobody is listening to anyone else, so it doesn’t feel true.

              I find that the scenes I like the most (so far) are normally the ones between only 2 cast members — like John and Millie; or in this episode, the meditation scene between John and Lata, and that final discussion between John and Mary. Maybe Drake is the common denominator there? Or, maybe these scenes are easier for the actors, because there’s only one other person to focus on. It’s when the whole Scooby gang is together that the show starts to feel cheesy and silly to me. I hope that gets better, before it’s too late.


                November 25, 2022 at 2:06 pm #30407

                “NICE twist with the monster being possessed by Mac’s vengeful spirit that then jumped into John. I didn’t see that coming and it was a good story point (plus Drake did a good job at playing it). I just thought the exposition about Mac as a bit labored and long. And the parallel about the “dark soul” hunter to what John might become was too heavy-handed.”

                I thought Drake did a great job of showing us two distinct personalities in “Mac” versus “John”. Even when Lata was talking to him, I could read the internal conflict on his face; very nicely done :). That could easily have gotten silly and ham-fisted, but Drake made it subtle enough to be compelling.


                  November 25, 2022 at 1:57 pm #30404

                  “I keep hoping that with time, I will get to know the characters and that will make up for that a bit; once I start caring about them. But so far, that has not happened. I do not dislike these characters, but there’s none of that deep caring or even fascination that I had early on for Sam and Dean.”

                  So much this!! I think part of the problem might be casting? These actors are also all young; but then again, so were Jensen and Jared, but they still had chemistry from the very beginning. And there was also something right away that made me care about them and their story. I’m not completely there with The Winchesters. I care about John and Millie, but so far, that’s it.

                  I think it’s rare for a show to come right out of the gate with such an amazing cast, writers, directors, etc that it grabs me from the very beginning. Supernatural, West Wing, and The Crown are the only examples I can think of right now that did that for me. I guess it’s just one more example of how rare and special Supernatural actually was. It was lightning in a bottle. And as talented as Jensen and Robbie both are, maybe they’ll never be able to create anything that even comes close.


                    November 25, 2022 at 1:46 pm #30397

                    I didn’t know RSJ directed this one! No wonder it’s the best one so far!

                      November 25, 2022 at 1:45 pm #30394

                      This show might finally be getting its legs under itself. This episode didn’t suck! If the previous episodes had been this good, I’d be much more optimistic about the future than I am. I was already in love with Supernatural by episode 4 or 5. But this show? No so much.

                      What I liked:

                      I thought the funeral scene was sweet and well-executed. It was the first time it seemed like the cast members (aside from Drake/John) were actually INTERACTING and communicating with one another instead of just reciting their lines. I even saw a glimmer of caring in Meg’s eyes. This might be the first time she seemed invested in her own performance.

                      The monster kicking the door in was a nice jump scare.

                      I liked the parallels and foreshadowing about how difficult it is for a hunter to leave the life and keep the past from eventually catching up with them.

                      It finally feels like they’re trying to give Lata some dimensions. She’s kind of right about a pacifist-hunter being a difficult contradiction to overcome. I don’t think it will last, though. Eventually, she’s going to land in a situation that she can’t talk her way out of.

                      What bothered me:

                      Unfortunately, Carlos is still comic relief, and I don’t think the actor is very good. With rare exception, most of his performance is over the top and he generally annoys me.

                      In the beginning, when they suspected a werewolf, why didn’t they check to see if the victim’s heart was missing? I looked at the body, and there wasn’t any blood on or near the center of her chest. A cursory visual exam would’ve told them that it wasn’t a werewolf. Sigh. Last week, the writers chose to ignore djinn lore, and this week a group of supposedly experienced hunters needed to examine the curvature of a claw to realize the monster wasn’t a werewolf? Okie, dokie…

                      Speaking of that monster fight, when Mary hacked the monster’s arm off with the machete, why didn’t she just chop off the head instead?? When in doubt about how to kill the thing, shouldn’t beheading be near the top of the list of stuff to try?

                      It felt like that first argument between Mary and John was too contrived and forced. That said, their conversation at the end of the episode was the very first time that I’m seeing any real chemistry between them, and I liked that scene for all the right reasons. I also enjoyed the meditation scene between John and Lata. It felt sincere. I think both of these scenes probably worked well because of Drake, but I’ll take them as wins anyway.

                      I’m a little annoyed that they made John seem so reckless. I get that he was trying to deal with anger issues and all, but John Winchester was never that stupid.

                      Anyway, this one gets a cautious A-minus. I hope they can keep the good writing going.


                      • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by kate38kate38.
                        November 23, 2022 at 8:08 pm #29897

                        You make some excellent points, JBB.

                        Lata is very “one-note”. That’s a great way to put it. It’s annoying that she always has the answer. I might be able to tolerate that better if we saw her actually work to get any of those answers. We saw Bobby drinking coffee and whiskey into the late hours, and even pulling all-nighters to come up with a monster identification or a weapon or whatever. Lata seems to just “find” the right book and suddenly she’s reading x-rays and giving the gang an answer.

                        Carlos is pretty one-note, too. He’s comic relief and not much more. Can he even fight? I was a little encouraged by his story in the PTSD episode. I was curious if he and John might start bonding over their mutual war experience. But nothing grew from that. Instead, the writers are trying to show us awkward chemistry between John and Mary. But that isn’t working for me, because Meg seems disconnected from her performance.

                        At one point, the entire cast was in their “club house” (Yes, that annoys me, too), and they were all “talking” to one another, but it felt like they were just reciting lines and not engaging with each other. I don’t know – maybe the cast needs more time to gel, but I’m just not feeling “it” at this point.


                          November 23, 2022 at 7:52 pm #29894

                          “I found it interesting how Mary’s issues with her parents being TOO truthful and Tony’s issues with Ada not being truthful enough both result in the same – resentment over the parents and the seeking of their own paths.”

                          Good catch, PNP! That’s an interesting parallel.

                          And I, too, chuckled about Mary’s “bonds” – LOL!! All they did was tie her arms to the chair. Her legs were completely free, so she could’ve simply stood up and walked away any time she felt like it! I guess the props people were taking it easy on her 🙂



                            November 19, 2022 at 8:22 pm #28848

                            I desperately want to find something positive to say about this episode, but I have to do some yoga stretches first…sigh

                            What I liked:

                            I still love the chemistry between John and Millie. Millie is so sincere and credible as John’s mother. Their conversations were the highlight of this episode for me.

                            I like Ada’s son. Good actor, interesting character with a lot of potential.

                            I don’t mind the slow build toward finding information about the Akrida, but I hope things start to move along pretty soon. I also want to see Samuel and Deanna before I reach retirement age. Ugh!

                            Okay, what I didn’t like:

                            How could they mess up djinn lore that much!!!??? I get that a djinn ended up NOT being the monster they were after, but the description they gave of how djinn operate was totally off! Nothing about feeding on your body fluids while your actual body wastes away? Even if we go with the revised djinn lore from seasons 6 and 8, it was still wrong. And not for nothing, but what exactly were they expecting to DO when they got to the abandoned factory if they’d actually found a djinn?? They had no weapons, and nobody mentioned knowing how to kill one.

                            The Scooby-gang vibe is getting annoying. I hate that they actually drive a Mystery Machine psychedelic van, and that ALL FIVE OF THEM went to interview the campaign manager. It would’ve made more sense to only send two of them. It feels like the cast is too large, so the writers don’t know what to do with everybody. (Can you see my eyes rolling?)

                            Is it me, or was the gang kind of callous when they found out about Ada’s son? It felt like. “Sorry I kept it a secret, but I have a son and he’s half djinn.” “Well, sorry right back, but we’re gonna hunt your son down and kill him. Let’s start rooting through his personal stuff so we can find him. Hey, Ada — are you coming with, or what?” WHAT?!??! Where’s the empathy? Ada actually had to ASK if she could have a moment with her son before her buddies hunted him down. Really?! Side note – I like the actress who plays Ada and think she did a great job in that scene.

                            I’m having difficulty liking and connecting with most of these characters. Many of them feel like “filler”. And the actress who plays Mary is not doing if for me. Aside from her eyebrows bordering on being a unibrow, she just doesn’t seem to believe her own performance. John, Millie and Ada are turning into the only characters I like. That’s pretty sad.

                            Bullet counter moment: that “x-ray” that supposedly showed the brain trauma was actually a brain scan (probably an MRI –I don’t think that technology was around in the 1970s, was it?). An x-ray can’t look past a skull fracture or surface injury. It definitely can’t show you the actual brain. Were the show’s technical consultants on vacation when this episode was being filmed?

                            I love that John was so willing to help Mary through her nightmares. But I couldn’t help getting that “Death’s Door” vibe, when Rufus helped Bobby find his worst memory. I was hoping for more originality from this show.

                            Finally, at the very end, when John said he’d give Mary the motor cycle, did anyone else think she should’ve been more…grateful? Or at least more hesitant to accept such a grand gesture? This motorcycle is one of the few things John has to remind him of his father, and he’s willing to GIVE IT TO YOU! Where’s the recognition of John’s generosity and sacrifice? That just makes Mary look more shallow and not well thought-out as a character.

                            I’m not sure if it’s just the writing or a combination of things, but if this is the best they can do, this show is in real trouble.


                            • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by kate38kate38.
                              November 19, 2022 at 7:54 pm #28840

                              Hi, Stedan!

                              Boy, I agree with pretty much EVERYTHING you said! This was my least favorite episode so far. It just didn’t gel for me, and I agree with you about Meg Donnelly. It feels like she’s phoning it in, and that’s a bad sign of things to come. I like John and Millie, and Ada is growing on me, but the rest of the characters just are not keeping my interest.




                                November 9, 2022 at 5:07 pm #26403

                                Hey, PNP 🙂

                                I enjoyed the fight scenes in this one, too! I miss badass Castiel in the later seasons. We see glimpses of him, but nothing like in the earlier seasons.

                                You ask some great questions. The way these boys leave dead bodies in motel rooms and other places, it’s a wonder the show never addresses it in more detail. I guess we’re supposed to assume that the boys got rid of the bodies, or the demons circled back and cleaned up their own dead. I guess Meg could’ve inhabited another nearby meatsuit long enough to come back and retrieve her own?

                                You make some good points about Becky, but I never identified with her or ever saw her as anything other than a cringe-worthy representation of the lunatic-fringe of our fandom. She’s like a septic tank — I know she’s there (and that people like her are out there) I just prefer not to spend much time thinking about it. And yes — she’s just as disgusting.


                                  November 9, 2022 at 4:48 pm #26402

                                  The devil coming up through the floor is one of my FAVORITE visual/special effects from the whole series! It is SO cool! It was so much fun to watch it again.

                                  Hubby and I tried to find that staircase next to the seedy motel when we were in Vancouver. I wanted to have a picture coming down the same stairs Sam used because it’s such an iconic shot. The good news is that area used to be a run-down part of town near the waterfront; but it has benefited from urban renewal, so it’s an upscale waterfront area now with cafés and shops. The bad news is that the old-style hotel and that stairway are both gone. Sigh…no picture for me.

                                  I LOVE Bobby in this one. Okay, I love Bobby all the time, but he had some special moments in this one. I love that he was willing to sacrifice himself to save Dean. And I recall being totally surprised when it was revealed that Bobby was possessed. The way he got in Dean’s face in “Lucifer Rising” (love that scene, by the way – although I was kind of on Dean’s side; his reactions to Bobby’s rant were spot-on), I assumed he was “our” Bobby giving Sam a similar dose of reality; although the “lose my number” bit came off a bit harsh. It’s good that it wasn’t the “real” Bobby talking, but it played very well at the time.

                                  Speaking of Bobby being possessed, I’m surprised he didn’t have an anti-possession charm or tattoo, considering he gave charms to the brothers way back in season 1.

                                  We had some great character introductions in this episode! I know we met Kurt Fuller in season 4, but he has a much larger and more pivotal role in season 5, so we really get to see who he is. I really like him as Zachariah, even though I don’t like the character at all. He’s really fun to hate 😊. Rachel Miner as Meg is a welcome breath of fresh air! And I felt so sorry for Nick! He was already so broken and vulnerable inside. He was (unfortunately) the perfect victim to be deceived by Lucifer. Does anyone know if the show ever explored the comment Lucifer made about how Nick’s blood was special and how he was a special vessel? I’ve always been curious about that comment. Anyway, I can’t say enough good things about Mark Pellegrino in this role. The show was SO lucky to cast him as Luci. He knocks it out of the park in EVERY scene he’s in. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

                                  I don’t have much negativity about this episode, except that I despise creepy Becky with the heat of a thousand souls. She’s disgusting from day one, and not in a good or funny way.

                                  I really don’t like Genevieve’s Ruby, so I enjoyed watching her get stabbed again in the recap. Sorry, not sorry…

                                  I liked Chuck as a character and despise what Dabb did to him in later seasons. It’s fun watching him be the hermit prophet again. I miss nice-Chuck 🙁


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