kate38
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“Hey! I think part of Dean’s stillness may have been discomfort. It was an awkward scene. Poised at the brink of death, Castiel has just informed Dean of a deal that may save them…him. Then launches into a seemingly irrelevant monologue about Dean’s humanity.Had I not known about the nature of the deal, i wouldn’t have understood what Castiel was saying or why he is saying it, now.”
Hey, Shannon!
Welcome to our fanwiki!!! It’s always a thrill to have someone new join our conversations. I hope you like it here 🙂You make some excellent points about Dean and Cas in that scene. Dean must have felt completely confused and blindsided by that whole thing. You’re right that Dean had no idea about Castiel’s deal until that very second. And in the seconds leading up to that announcement, Dean was probably trying to figure out why Cas was saying the things he was saying. His only response was “What are you talking about, Man?” He was clearly CLUELESS about where Cas was going (which shoots the whole Destiel thing in the foot — even if I believed in it, which I don’t). The fans were wondering if the pronouncements were romantic or not, and I suspect maybe Dean was, too. Then, before he has a moment to sort out anything — BAM! — it’s all over and Cas is gone. Dean had plenty of reason to be confused and fractured at that moment.
Here’s the question of the day — do you think he would’ve answered the phone right away?
Welcome!
kate-
This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by .
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This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by .
These next two episodes will be the ones that were filmed after the pandemic shut down. I wonder if the differences will be obvious. It looks like the next episode will start with most of the world’s population being gone. I guess that’s one way to film without having to use a lot of extras 🙂
When conventions are up and running again, I hope somebody asks what the original (pre-pandemic) ending was supposed to be, and what the changes were.
Speaking of the ending, I wonder if that Castiel scene is one of the things Jensen initially objected to when he learned what events would happen at the end of the series. (i.e. Before he was hauled into the principal’s office and told to get on board).
“Castiel has been their ally, friend, frenemy, support, brother with all the good and bad that comes with for TWELVE years!!!! He is important to BOTH brothers. His loss will devastate both of them. It should have stood on his own.
I didn’t want a parallel to a love interest on Sam’s side here.”
I agree. I’ve never been on board with Sam-Eileen — it has always felt forced and clunky to me. But to resurrect her just so Sam can develop feelings for her and then lose her feels cheap to me.
And although get why they juxtaposed Sam’s loss, Charlie’s loss, and Dean’s loss the way they did, it felt heavy handed.
“I have never been on board with The Empty but it would have been scarier if you truly couldn’t escape. And Jack was there and back in one episode last night! So what’s the threat?!”
I agree with most of this! The Empty has become more of a revolving door than a place to be feared. And the Shadow (who was given a name by Naomi, or Dumah – I can’t recall, but everybody seems to have forgotten that name anyway, so whatever…) has become a power tool to be manipulated when it’s convenient. Billie “uses” the Empty to save/heal Jack, and later in the same episode, Castiel “uses” the Empty to save Dean from Billie.
The first time Cas landed in the Empty, he talked and annoyed his way out. And later he popped in for a visit to talk to Ruby. Who, by the way, is expecting Cas to help her escape. Sigh…
The more we learn about the Empty, the more irrelevant it becomes.
“Yes! Leave Billie and the stupid Empty out of it! God and Amara are plenty to deal with!!!! This side story is not an interesting twist! It’s distracting from what could be amazing!”
I agree. In their attempt to make the plot complicated and interesting enough to keep us guessing, they’ve made it too convoluted: “Chuck is trying to make us kill each other. Nope – scratch that. We have to kill Chuck with this leviathan blossom thingy before he destroys other worlds. Nope — No can do. It’ll cause monster apocalypse. Okay then, Jack is back and he’s gonna kill Chuck? Wait — no, Jack turns himself into a bomb. Good thing Billie is on our side. But wait — no she isn’t. Billie wants to be god, so she’s gonna kill us. Nope — she’s pissed and just wants to kill Dean. Oops — wrong again. Billie is angry now and is killing all our friends? Nope — it’s Chuck again, and he’s killing everybody on the planet except for you three and a really cute dog.” Sigh…
I think by default the final episodes will have to be simpler just because there’s nobody else left to fight or kill.
“Hey Kate38, I am VERY SORRY you are hurting for Cas!!!!!!
But at least he had a worth AND happy end!!
I am not so sure we’ll get this for the Boys!! And you KNOW I have clung on to positive thinking til the end. I think I am finally running on empty.
PNP”
Thanks for the love, PNP.
Yes, Cas had a very appropriate and oddly “happy” ending. But I find myself wondering if it’s truly permanent.
I’m okay if that sounds delusional, but it’s not like the Empty is still “that place nobody returns from” any longer. It hasn’t been that for a long time. Cas and Billie got sucked in at the same time, so anything is possible. Could Cas make a deal with Death? And I’m guessing we’re supposed to forget about that scene (Destiny’s Child) when Cas agreed to help Ruby escape the Empty in exchange for information about the Occultum? Can they both escape somehow? I don’t know — maybe I’m in denial, but I just get the feeling this isn’t the end of Cas.
“I am mostly mad at the lame ruse to try and make of us think that Billie was starting to wipe the board clean of people who had been saved or resurrected and then turn the table last moment and make that CHUCK’S doing, because I truly hated that they killed Charlie AGAIN and Eileen AGAIN and Bobby AGAIN….AND then DARED to also kill Donna???
That was SO horribly useless and immensely irritating that I couldn’t even find it sad or emotionally taxing. It was just gratuitous drama for no good purpose!”It was a slaughterhouse tonight, wasn’t it? I think earlier this season, Dabb said “If you liked GOT, brace yourself” or something along those lines. I never watched GOT, but I’ve heard people say that a bunch of important characters died near the end.
I personally think these (LAZY, LAZY) writers are stealing from the Avengers and GOT. If that’s true, didn’t many of the people who got vaporized in Avengers return? So, I think the Boys are gonna make a deal with Chuck. The brothers will agree to die if Chuck will agree to bring everybody else back — something like that. At this point, I’m not sure I even care anymore. Maybe I’m just numb because of Cas…sigh…
“I thought that the bloody handprint on Dean’s shoulder when Cas tossed him out of the way was unnecessary! Yes, we all know that Cas saved Dean initially from hell, we have not forgotten! That was a little too on the nose for me and not logical, because where is the blood coming from??”
I’m pretty sure Cas’ hand was bleeding because of the blood sigil he drew on the door to protect them from Billie. I could’ve done without the hand print, but I got it and it didn’t bother me that much.
“He would have died for Jack, but he died saving someone very important to him and to us.”
We’re in agreement. I’m sure Cas would have willingly died for Jack. I just don’t think Jack is worthy. But yes, Cas died for someone very important to him and to all of us. Cas was also 100% right when he said Dean is the most loving and most self-sacrificing person there is. Dean needed to hear that.
If Cas had to die anyway, I’m glad he died saving Dean and not Jack. Dean is worthy of that sacrifice. Jack isn’t (IMO).
“I cannot wait for our rewatch – to be back in the early seasons.”
Yes! Definitely!! Season 15 is not making me very happy right now. I didn’t have high hopes going in, but gosh! I didn’t think it would suck THIS bad.
“I knew you would not be happy that there may only be 3 people left on earth and Jack is one of them. I really didn’t like everything they did with Jack here. The big plan fizzled – he detonates but is preserved by the Empty just…NO!”
Right!?!?!? I knew their master plan would be derailed, but this was a silly way to derail it. So, we’re supposed to believe that Chuck just kills Jack (again) and happily leaves the bunker to go do his evil, rapture snap thing? Chuck must have known about Billie’s involvement and what she is capable of. It just didn’t make sense to me.
And what happened to the AU Winchesters? I guess they got rapture-snapped, too?
kate
I’ll have to rewatch, but this one was weird.
The part I enjoyed most was the crying, hallway scene between Dean and Sam. It made perfect sense and was well written and acted.
I love Rachel Miner, so that was another part I enjoyed. I also like Emily Swallow, and like how Amara tried to come to humanity’s defense. It reminded me of Metatron at the end of his story arc.
I hope Cas doesn’t die. And it feels like they’re setting up a showdown between Chuck-Amara and Billie. That might be interesting.
The weird and negative stuff sorta spoiled this one for me:
I don’t get how somehow Sam and Cas came up with a spell to bind Chuck in the bunker. OR was that simply part of Chuck’s illusion so he could convince Amara that the Winchesters had betrayed her?
Although I agree with Dean that Jack is not family, it feels like the writers tried too hard to introduce last-minute conflict and drive a sudden wedge between Dean and Sam. And Dean suddenly pulling a gun on Sam also seemed over the top. He might throw punches, but pulling a gun?? Are we supposed to believe that was Chuck’s clunky writing again? By the way, Dean got SOOOOO much hate on Twitter for saying Jack is not family. The truth hurts, I guess 🙂
Adam and Serafina were just plain weird — like over-the-top, cut back on the hallucinogens weird. The Adam’s rib thing was a nice reminder that these writers do remember something from the bible. But, again, it felt like the writers were trying too hard to do something with Adam and Serafina. It didn’t work for me.
Next week looks pretty intense. I hope it’s a good one.
kate
Very creepy monster! I liked this case. I also liked the episode in general. The baba yaga is a real monster, too – some sort of Slavic, child-eating monster. Pretty cool.
Whoever wrote this episode seems to not like Dean very much. I don’t think Dean would’ve been that much of a jerk about the college booklet. The same nurturing, protective Dean from “After School Special” wouldn’t have behaved that way. He wouldn’t have called Sam a “dumba**” and said there was no way he’d get into college. Dean always knew Sam was smart, so that doesn’t make sense. Also, Dean was very quick to dismiss the case. That doesn’t seem like his style — especially since he had history with Caitlin. And Sam was right at the end of the episode – he and Dean seem like they should be past keeping secrets at this point. I think Dean would’ve told him sooner about the Billie/Jack plan. It might just be me, but this seemed like a Dean-negative episode.
I tend to like the wee-Chester episodes, because they almost always reveal something we didn’t know about these characters. But this one didn’t do that for me.
A few confusing points:
1. In the opening teaser, Travis looked OLDER than Dean and Sam. So, I was surprised in the flashback when he was a few years younger. Couldn’t they just have found a younger actor to play adult Travis?2. When the kids were trying to use a map to locate the missing children, Sam used Milk Duds to mark the abduction sites, but he was sitting right in front of a cup that held pens and pencils. Why wouldn’t he just use one of the pens or pencils?
3. Billie said that Jack agreed to the suicide plan because he wanted Dean’s forgiveness for killing Mary, and he thinks sacrificing himself is the only way Dean will forgive him. But Jack made the deal with Billie when he was still in the Empty and didn’t have his soul. He didn’t feel remorse for murdering Mary, and even blamed Mary herself for what happened. It doesn’t make sense to me that he’d make that deal with Billie so Dean would forgive him, because at the time he made the deal, he wouldn’t have cared.
We’ve seen young Travis before. I think he was a kid named “Max”, but I can’t recall the episode. Anybody got that one? He looks vey familiar.
Anyway, I give this one a solid A-minus. Good story, creepy monster, Billie appearance, and it moved the main plot forward.
kate
“I did not love them leaving Sam out in the car though (????). Really, leaving Sam out of most of this.”
Hey, JBB 🙂
When I saw that, I remember thinking it was another one of those days that Jared had off so he wasn’t on set. Like that ridiculous scene when Jared is holding off monsters by barricading a door all by himself because he was clearly the only one on set.However, the writers seem to be making a point of leveraging this connection that still exists between Dean and Amara, so I guess it made sense to me that Sam isn’t part of that. I was a little befuddled, because Dean and Sam initially said they were heading to New Jersey to confront Amara, but then — when Dean and Amara were alone — Dean said he’d never hurt her. So I was confused by that. Was Dean simply intending to have a conversation with her the whole time? It didn’t seem that way from the tough talk at the bunker and in the car. I mean, they KNOW they can’t kill her, so maybe it was their plan all along to simply try to convince her to help them.
I think I’ll have to watch those scenes again.kate
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This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by