PigNaPoke
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I am just disappointed that they pulled Billie in as the additional adversary so close to the end. WHY!? They are trying to outsmart GOD for heck’s sake….isn’t that big enough to deal with???
I would have liked it better to deal with the “Amuck” situation and keep Billie on the neutral or ally side.
It just seems like they are trying too hard to make it “mega” big for he end.
UGH
PNP
YESSSSS, JBB!!!
KNIFE SIGHTING!!!!!!
I saw that, too!!
PNP
“I’m pretty sure Cas’ hand was bleeding because of the blood sigil he drew on the door to protect them from Billie. I could’ve done without the hand print, but I got it and it didn’t bother me that much.”
GOOD POINT, kate38!!! Thanks! Still, too much for me. It seemed to forced.
PNP
“I’m not all that familiar with them either (hubby drags me to them sometimes), but there’s one evil character who snapped his fingers and suddenly made people all over the world disappear in puffs of smoke, like the characters did in this episode. It was sort of like a rapture — people who were standing right next to you were suddenly just gone.
In the movie, some of the main superheroes also disappeared. I was kinda hoping Jack would vaporize, but he didn’t LOL!”HEY GUYS!
OK – I hate to disagree with you, but that was THANOS, the big “bad” in the Avengers movies BUT I don’t see it as a good parallel! (SORRY, prepare to be geeked!)
For one, THANOS was doing it because he wanted to SAVE an overpopulated and doomed to die universe and therefore “culled” 50% of the population to make room for the rest to live. He actually thought he did the Universe a favor and he wasn’t choosing who would die and who would live. It was a completely random 50% of the inhabitant of the world.
CHUCK does it out of boredom and spite!Second, THANOS has to sacrifice his own daughter’s live to gather enough strength to make this happen and (in his view) save the world.
CHUCK didn’t sacrifice anything – well maybe his sister, but he didn’t seem at all broken up about that.SO, although I can see the pure visual parallel, I don’t see it as a good story comparison. If the writers meant it as such…they failed 100%
This episode “flaking away” was just odd! Too random to be meant as lesson for the Winchesters and too specific to mean that he doesn’t care.
PNP
WOW…..that was….BAD!
SIGH.
I am in complete agreement with you guys. HEY, at least THAT is good, right?
Misha was LOVELY in this episode!! All scenes with him were highly worth watching and his deeply heartfelt last scene with Dean was exactly what I had hoped for for the character if he had to go!!! I also thought we saw some of MISHA bleeding through Cas’ performance, the slightly higher voice, the deep emotion, which was very meta.
YES, kate38, Destiel people will forever feel vindicated by this…..sorry, but….I could’ve done without that!!! They tend to be quite rabid about their preference in shipping and I STILL don’t see it as romantic. It’s BROTHER-FRIEND love to me between them, that’s it. But, whatever. Maybe the writers meant this as a concession for fans? I don’t know.
But aside from that, I am glad that Cas got a worthy send off and I quite liked the way he figured out what true happiness is because I agree wholeheartedly that it’s in the giving not the taking. And I also loved that he told Dean what we all knew for 15 years – that Dean is the most deeply caring and loving person on this earth.
OTHER than that……I found the episode sadly anticlimactic and at the same time artificially dramatic.
I would have liked a little more than (beautiful, heart-breaking) tears from Dean in that last scene with Cas, but I can accept that Dean was stunned and out of ideas. Still they could’ve given him a couple of lines (or shouldn’t have cut them if they were there)
I thought that the bloody handprint on Dean’s shoulder when Cas tossed him out of the way was unnecessary! Yes, we all know that Cas saved Dean initially from hell, we have not forgotten! That was a little too on the nose for me and not logical, because where is the blood coming from??
I don’t buy that Billie all of a sudden has such strong feelings against all “out of order” events and especially against Dean. That comes kinda out of nowhere for me and makes her seem small and weak to me. I love Lisa Berry, but the original DEATH was so great because he DIDN’T really care, because humanity was too beneath him. Having Billie Death take it all so personally is odd!
I am mostly mad at the lame ruse to try and make of us think that Billie was starting to wipe the board clean of people who had been saved or resurrected and then turn the table last moment and make that CHUCK’S doing, because I truly hated that they killed Charlie AGAIN and Eileen AGAIN and Bobby AGAIN….AND then DARED to also kill Donna???
That was SO horribly useless and immensely irritating that I couldn’t even find it sad or emotionally taxing. It was just gratuitous drama for no good purpose!IF Sam and Dean die at the end I really wanted some of the others (like Donna, Bobby and Charlie) to still be alive and carry on the Winchester’s memory. And if Sam and Dean don’t die than there is literally almost no one left on earth who they care about.
THAT is too dark even for our show.ALSO I have a big problem with Dean and Sam splitting up there in the middle of the episode ESPECIALLY as they suspect that either one of them could disappear at any moment. I don’t see that happening!!
And I LOOOOOVE Bro hugs!!! I do!!! But that one was a total waste for me and seemed to be put there just because the writers thought there needed to be one for the fans. There wasn’t enough feeling behind it. I never thought I would ever say that. UGH.I also had hoped that there would be more of an explanation about last week’s moment of Dean pulling the gun on Sam!!! OK, they talked and Dean apologized, but he still said that he needed Chuck dead and couldn’t snap out of it, which sounds to me too much like it was DEAN who was out of control of his own actions because of his hate for Chuck in that moment and not because Chuck was controlling his story. IF that is what the writers intended….they are CRAZY! Dean would never ever pull a gun on Sam and cock it in blind rage. That is just not him. (Especially if the writers argue in the next episode that Dean is the most caring person in the world….). Anyhow, I will keep imagining that it was Chuck’s doing….just to make it palatable to me.
Lastly, I know Dean was so devastated at the end of the episode, but it made me scream at the TV that he would ignore a call from Sam right there!!!! He must realize that not answering might make Sam think he disappeared!!! With everything going on, I NEED the Winchesters to be on the same page and focused on each other here at the end, NOT behaving like they have all the time in the world or don’t care!
Questions:
Now that Billie is dead or dying…..who will be the next Death? Could it be Cas? I know he is not a reaper, but he is an angel and didn’t we find out that reapers are angels?
(My husband thinks DEAN should be the next Death. HA! I told him he cares too much, that’ll never work)Billie said that Jack is still useful. For what? He has no powers. Could HE become the next Death? He is half (arch)angel afterall…..and he made that plant in the silo die by touching it and seemed surprised about it.
I am guessing they will still need a “Death” in order to defeat Chuck? Or at least to reap him.
What a disappointment for the second to last episode of the mythological arc in the last season……it left me feeling empty and underappreciated as a fan.
It hurts my heart to say it, but I expected soooo much more.
PNP
Regarding Dean saying that Jack is NOT family…..he didn’t completely outright dismiss Jack as family in this episode, which I appreciated. Yes, he said it, but he also said “not like Sam or Cas” which to me means that there are levels of family and that is believable to me.
I do believe Dean CARES about Jack but I also understand that he doesn’t love him the same way he does Sam or Cas. Jack hasn’t been around long enough, proven himself enough, had too many ups and downs in his short existence already AND killed Mary. There’s a lot of stones on the negative side of the scale for Dean here.
I get all that.
STILL, Dean was right by Jack’s side when he goes down in the bunker and that shows clearly that it’s not all black and white for him.Dean is complicated and I appreciate that it’s a consistent character trait. There is ALWAYS another layer to him.
PNP
OH, that’s right, JBB!! Thanks for reminding me. I was very worried for the bunker.
The more I think about this episode the more I feel that the writers are putting us (viewers) in the same position the characters must be feeling at this point of the story – confused and messed up and doubting all of it and worried and anxious and having slim hope for a good outcome.
That all sounds BAD but I find it interesting and engaging storytelling AS LONG as it all pans out at the end. HAHAHA
Right now, I’m curious to see what’s next and I won’t give up hope that we will get a fitting end.
PNP
I wonder if we WILL loose the bunker after all…..if Jack’s implosion cannot be stopped I can see him staying behind while the others flee up top…..
I would HAAAAAATE THAT!!!!!
I really want the bunker to remain as a reminder of the Winchesters legacy and the promise it holds for all future generations of hunters and possible MOLs.
But then maybe someone or something can teleport Jack out of there….
Because it was SO out of character for Dean, I know think more and more that it WAS Chuck’s writing to the point where SAM convinced Dean that this is wrong and that he had to listen to Sam and put the gun down.
I can totally accept that as an interesting plot point, but I just wish that was made more clear in the last scene, maybe with Dean apologizing or looking stunned at his own action….
HOWEVER, we may still get that next week as we were left with a cliff hanger.
I really did enjoy this one despite the mess and confusion. I want to believe that was intentional.
PNP
INTENSE is the word of the week for me! PHEW!!
Overall I liked it it a lot, BUT I also have a few major hang ups.
I go character by character to sort my head space out:
JACK – I appreciate how he has accepted his “role” the way he understands it showing some real growth with this. Even though I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop on Billie (and BOY DID IT!!!) Jack acted in a selfless manner here and simply was ready to take one for the team who has protected and nurtured him for much of his short life. I also felt touched by the scene between Dean and Jack where Dean thanked him for doing what it was planning to do to save the world and give him and Sam a chance at a “life”.
DEAN – here lie my MAJOR issues. I understand and can believe that Dean is so freaking TIRED of the dance and overwhelmed by the thought that he can’t escape the hamster wheel. BUT…BUT…BUT!!!! HE WOULD NEVER PULL A GUN ON SAM AND COCK IT!!!! NEVER!!! That was so out of character it bothered the living daylights out of me!!!!!! Especially after he says to Jack that he is looking forward to a life with Sam AFTER. Really? From that he goes to ready to shoot his brother in order to kill God? OR was THAT part still God’s writing? God’s plan? IF that was it then I needed a break in Dean some indication that he had no control over his action at that moment.
I do appreciate Dean being ready to do the hard thing and accompany Jack on his last mission. Dean never shied away from the hard decisions.
And, of course, Jensen was PERFECT at acting it all out.SAM – BIG kudos to Jared for this episode!!!! He did amazing and I was riveted to ALL of it! His anger, his frustration, his tenacity, his quick wit in lying to The Empty, his heartbreak and the way he convinced his brother not to shoot him…all very well done! Sam’s arc was great, too. LOVE that he figured it out regarding the Empty and Billie’s plan!! Our smart Sam! Loved how he stayed behind to research, but ultimately HE was more important to the plot advancement than even Dean here.
CAS – yeah, he was there, too. I didn’t get much from him in this. He was supportive of Sam and a nice scene partner. I would have liked him to get involved a little to convince Dean NOT to kill his brother!
AMARA – loved that she made a real turn. Her essence must have changed, too, as she can hold a flower now without killing it. I really enjoyed the scenes with Chuck and how Amara took it on herself to try and convince her brother to let this world live, to show him what wonderful thing he created. I am a little surprised that she simply believed Chuck later when he said the Winchesters lied, but the story was PACKED and had to move along so I can forgive that.
CHUCK – oh, Chuck….you petulant child! Very well played by Rob!! I love that he got thwarted AGAIN by the Winchesters in the end when they did NOT behave the way he planned. I also really enjoyed how that last bit was cutting back and forth between the drama in the hallway between the brothers and Chuck and Amara. It kept me on the edge of my seat.
Issue I had with their interaction:
Are we to believe that Amara willingly “joined” Chuck? Or that he absorbed her against her will?? And if the latter is true….why did he need 4 archangels to contain her last time?? And if she is part of him now….can she inact some of HER will?
I did like the special effect of Chuck with one blue and one black eye!THE EMPTY – she/ he/ it is a little too naive for me, but at least it’s consistent. It JUST wants to go back to sleep. OK, we get it. I also appreciate it that they let us know that she can’t go to earth unless summoned. Loved to see Rachel.
BILLIE – WOW….well, there you have it. DEATH is the villain?! Interesting twist and a real conundrum and a good adversary…..BUT…BUT…BUT….are we to believe that this was ALWAYS Death’s plan? Adam said that he was kept alive (I think he said by Billie??) to take his revenge on God???? But 30,000 years ago that would have been the original Death, no? Or did Billie the REAPER make these plans all along? I can’t believe that as it was said only Death can read God’s book. I have an issue with that, but I am willing to wait for more explanation.
So, now what?? If Death wants a reset, which means ALL who were dead are dead again…..BOTH Winchesters would drop dead immediately, right? And Death said they have to reap God….but do we still want that now? And if Death has the power to RESET everything and God wants that, too, are they both on the SAME side now? And is Amara simply gone now? Or can she “pop” back out and claim a will? WHAT A MESS – but an interesting one.
Other things I really liked:
– ADAM being a hippie. HA, funny.
– Adam’s rib being super powerful as an spell ingredient or artifact was a good idea
– Sam and Cas digging through the bunker’s treasures. I have to watch again but I’m sure there were a few easter eggs in that. Was that the grail?Definitely need a rewatch of this one….WOW
Ok, PISSED OFF!!
I wrote a whole reply and it disappeared!
I’ll rewrite it tomorrow.Ugh.
Basically I loved it and agree with much of JBB’s. Including that I found it very true to character for young Dean to be worried about Sam leaving him for college and snapping at him for even considering it! And then he kinda sweetly tried to get back in Sam’s good graces by telling him what a good team they made.
Kate38, regarding your point:
“Billie said that Jack agreed to the suicide plan because he wanted Dean’s forgiveness for killing Mary, and he thinks sacrificing himself is the only way Dean will forgive him. But Jack made the deal with Billie when he was still in the Empty and didn’t have his soul. He didn’t feel remorse for murdering Mary, and even blamed Mary herself for what happened. It doesn’t make sense to me that he’d make that deal with Billie so Dean would forgive him, because at the time he made the deal, he wouldn’t have cared.”
I understood that as something Billie said to Dean to get DEAN on board as she knows well that Dean understands and respects selfsacrifice!!! After all Dean killed himself to attract her attention and bargain for Sam’s live with his own.
I don’t necessarily think Jack actually said that !And regarding “After School Special”. I always thought THAT was a somewhat Dean critical and negative episode. Yes, Dean was protective of Sam and offered to set the people straight who had beaten up Sam BUT didn’t he do that when he was feeling a bit down and slighted by his own class after the two girls he fooled around with called him out on double dipping!! To me that moment of offered help always read more to me as an attempt for Dean to set his own record as tough guy right with the school. So to me that really wasn’t a stellar young Dean moment!
SPN Christmas young Dean, while also rough at a couple of spots, was wonderful trying to create a cool Christmas for his little brother.PNP
Hey kate38,
Didn’t you hear Mussorgsky’s Pictures of an Exhibition in your head!? I love the Baba Yaga bit of that!
Pnp
Oooohhh, yesssss!!!
What GREAT episode!! I was really enjoying everything about it!!!
Scary monster (glad they finally used the Baba Yaga!!), creepy children, good effects, great motel rooms and locations. A real throw back to “old style” episodes.
I always loved the flash back episodes and I was a little apprehensive to have one so late in the game and with new young actors, but my worry was unnecessary. The young actors, especially young Dean, were very well chosen and did an excellent job.
I appreciated the look into the relationship between young Dean and Sam. Dean’s discovery that Sam was interested in college and his immediate dismissal of the possibility was classic Dean as was the end where he kinda apologized in a roundabout way by praising Sam by saying they were a good team. Basically asking Sam not to leave.
Poor Dean starting early with keeping secrets to protect other from nightmares that then plague him for a long time. Hard to watch but also very Dean.
The theme of “lies don’t ever pay off” was loud and clear and not new, but well executed and led to a great scene at the end!
I actually LOVED that Sam blew up and snapped at Dean!!! Of course, I don’t want them to fight, but it is high freaking time that Dean takes Sam’s ability to deal seriously and doesn’t make decisions above his head. Saying that he did it because he knew Sam couldn’t handle it is pretty insulting to a person who has been steadfast by your side for this whole season!! There is no reason to think that they can’t at least have a discussion about it. Then tension between them at the very end and the disappointment from Sam at being pushed aside was palpable and acted to perfection !
They also BOTH should have a talk with Jack about it. He has the right to have an opinion and sacrifice himself of he chooses to. That is not the Winchesters’ decision. They can try to talk him out of it. They can try to find and offer him another option. But they shouldn’t just decide for him.
Despite the high emotion end to it I very much loved it.
Loved the bit about how the separation of Chuck and Amara caused the big bang!
I am thinking that IF Amara is truly on board with helping to stop Chuck my other theory might become true and Amara becomes the new “light” or GOD and Chuck will be the “darkness” and possibly gets locked away with help from Michael.
That would reverse their roles, create new balance, not kill Chuck and leave a woman in charge. Actually TWO women if you consider Rowena as Queen of Hell.
I would really be ok with that!!
PNP
