PigNaPoke
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The first scene is masterful right out of the gate! Dean recognizing the hunter’s voice is so very very “Dean”, and he turns on the charm, trying to talk them down. The way they blow Sam away is so very violent. If anything, I would expect a bit more of a complete panic response from Dean and you can see the desperation in his face, but I think he needed to lose it a bit more here than he did. And then they kill him too. Reasonable reason though; no, you would not want Dean on your ass after killing Sam. You’d be a dead man yourself then, no doubt.
I thought it was PERFECT that Dean DOESN’T lose his shit when Sam is shot. To me it is absolutely chilling that Dean is so calm. He’s clearly pissed that this happens right then, but he also immediately seems to believe that “this is it” for him as well. His composure here is showing that to me. Now Sam’s dead, Dean is outgunned and doesn’t see a way out, so his natural response is to want to die as well, not to be left alone in the world. When Roy tries to reason with Walt (or was it the other way around?) to leave Dean alive, Dean goes on it offensive and taunts him, egging him on to kill him, instead of finding an argument to leave him alive.
It is heartbreaking but also quintessential Dean to me.
PNP
WELL….I should’ve guessed….Clowns, creepy or otherwise are not for me….ever.
I didn’t hate the case, though. I thought it had interesting elements and a high creep factor.
Of course, then there were also dumb parts.
Like the local library having a book about the American Lore of the Carnival?! Unlikely. But then they always find exactly what they need….which is still annoying.
Mary running into the tent without John was STUPID. There wasn’t a need for it either. John was just down the next aisle. She just doesn’t behave like an experienced hunter to me.
The gang was out of town, right? They were at a motel after all. So, HOW did Millie find them so easy in the middle of an empty field?
I didn’t mind the tension between John and Mary. I thought some of her arguments about how John uses their new relationship as a happy distraction from his anger and grief issues was valid to me. Even though, the context about how that is like the clown case was very labored.
Drake looks damn good!
I did find Lata’s terror trying to get away from the clowns and her freaking out in the clown car FUNNY!
I also enjoyed that it was Carlos talking the kid into facing reality and breaking the spell! That’s normally Lata’s job…but she was preoccupied…screaming. LOL.
I didn’t like that after the spell is broken the gang all casually checks in with each other, but no one checks immediately on the kid! Sam and Dean would’ve done so!
The Rowena story line was VERY dubious to me. For one, I really enjoyed Ada so far, because she was capable and resourceful but this episode she seems so timid and incapable somehow. I didn’t like that.
Since when can Rowena just appear and vanish at will? Where did she come from? Or WHEN did she come from? She said she needed the demon in the Bonsai to get information about her son. So that means she must have come from the future, because she only found out about Crowlely having anything to do with Hell in SPN season 10, right? When after that did she not know where Crowley was? Or is she looking for Crowley after his death in the AU? She did use purple magic here, which she only got after her Unbinding, correct? Which was Season 13 right after Crowley’s death.
Anyhow, we won’t know, I guess, but that made her popping up unsatisfying to me. Sure it’s nice to see Rowena, but without a proper tie in to the SPN show, it seems like just another “fan service” cameo.
And, of course, she had the convenient answer….sigh.
The witches “club” or whatever that was felt gimmicky and uninteresting to me. For one everyone in there looked like in a 1920’s speakeasy….why? And the makeup was so Cabaret to me, it distracted.
They could have come up with a better way to introduce Rowena. She was obviously looking for Ada (and the demon)…..no need for the elaborate plot line of a witches poker game. And IF you go that way, than make it MORE over the top….like them playing for something bizzarro, like kittens or whatever.
Also, do the MoL warded doors keep out witches? I guess so?
OK, now they have a weapon against the Akrida Queen that costs Ada a piece of her soul? SIGH…..kinda boring to me….because “been there, done that”! Didn’t turn out so good for Jack.
Still overall I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I would from the previews.
PNP
WOW….uhhhm….well, this certainly didn’t do CRAP to tie up any loose ends!!
I am very sad to say that this was just a lack luster episode of TV. All of the other characters were either acting wooden or plain uninteresting. And Mary pretty much disappeared in this one.
The only character that seemed REAL was Millie. And John had some glimpses of being interesting when he outsmarted the Akrida Cop in the interview by revealing he paid attention and had actually figured out some things on his own.
Other than that….it was a sadly boring episode.
And if they are trying to give us another Sheriff Jody in Betty….it ain’t working!
We also didn’t get any further with the Akrida story arc. And the “Akrida-Cop” character was SUPER annoying to me!!
And the “reveal your darkest secret” story line made NO sense to me and I highly doubt that a story about Lata’s Indian heritage full of awful cast prejudice really resonates with the general American audience?! I mean, YES, it’s tragic and totally wrong, but would the target audience for this show truly GET that? (sorry, I don’t want to sound condescending!!! And please correct me if I’m wrong)
I also felt like Carlos, who was IN it with Lata, had more focus on getting out of that freezing place than actually LISTENING to Lata’s pain and then….what’s the point??? He was supposed to be the anchor and friend in her darkest space….instead I felt the over arching “it’s not your fault” theme was thin and not heart-felt.
TOTAL MISS to me. Sorry. I didn’t feel it at all.
It’s making me very very sad that a team including Jensen and Robbie would think THIS is compelling TV?!
PNP
Another STELLAR episode and show-and-tell of all SPN can be. Funny and sad, packed with new lore and info and giving great new insight into our main characters. It spans the full scope of emotions and I love it for that.
SO MANY iconic scenes in this episode – fire work in the field (SO beautiful), a visit to the road house in heaven (yesssss, ASH! And Pamela), Dean throwing the amulet away (knife to the heart)…
It’s also a really short episode – only 40 minutes – but seems so much longer.
SOLID argument by Roy that you don’t want a pissed off Dean coming after you for the rest of your life!!! And of course, Dean taunts him with the “when I get back…” I wonder if he actually WAS that confident that he wouldn’t stay dead?
LOVE the way we figure out WITH Dean where he is! Cas’ instructions are hilarious! “Don’t go into the light.” “Thanks, Carol Ann.” hahaha.
I LOVE all of Dean’s memories we get to see.
And although Sam’s good memories seem to be everything BUT of his family, I never bought that this was actually what Sam’s heave really would look like. To me it always was a manipulation of Zachariah to drive a wedge between Sam and Dean.
I’m not saying that Sam didn’t FEEL like he wanted a better family SITUATION than the one he got and that because of that he enjoyed some rare glimpses into other people’s “perfect” lives or have some freedom from the hunting life but I don’t believe that those are Sam’s happiest memories!! Like the night he went to college…might have been a short lived triumph to “get away” but there is no way that is a happy memory.
I completely understand why Dean feels so hurt by all of this, but I also wish Dean would cut Sam a little slack here. After all, they already know that angels are douchebags and messing with them at every chance they get. And they ran into Zachariah enough times to know that he only has his OWN interest at heart! So it isn’t a big stretch to imagine that they are being fucked with here again.
And when you look at Dean’s memories, they aren’t all pure happiness either. When Dean remembers the fight between mom and dad, that would have been scary for a kid. Sam’s observation about how long Dean cleaned up after dad is very poignant. Jensen’s ability to turn into “little boy” mode is incredible.
GODS I miss Ash!!! He would have been such great back ground character to show up every once in a while. SIGH. But at least we get him here and he is GLORIOUS in his “Ashness” (“Bud, blood and beer nuts – best smell in the world.”) and pivotal. THANK YOU, Andrew Dabb!
I remember Chad Lindberg telling the story at a con that it was JENSEN who taught him how to shotgun a beer. LOL
LOVE the comment Ash makes about heaven being “like Disneyland, only without all the antisemitism”. And Roy and Walt (Disney?) being the ones who shot Sam and Dean. HAHA.
Pamela is trying to sell Dean on saying YES to Michael came out of left field for me, but I was happy she found peace and I love the fact that she TAKES a kiss from Dean and confirms that her fantasy was true.
Mary turning mean and then into YED is creepy and Sam Smith is actually doing a pretty good job here. And Kurt Fuller is amazing!
INTERESTING that Joshua says that God is on earth! So, was it implied here already that Chuck is God?
This scene is SO tough to me because you see Dean’s hope for help and Sam’s belief in God crumble into rubble before our eyes.
And when Castiel just stands there almost catatonic in his disbelief, it’s heart-breaking. Unfortunately, I totally get being so deeply disappointed in your father !!!
HAAATE that Dean felt it necessary to let go of the amulet at this particular point – giving up on hope for a solution of the mess they are in AND giving up on Sam for a moment. Believing Cas that the amulet is worthless. So so sad.
Still, with all the pain at the end, it’s an AMAZING episode and so impactful to watch. To me we are left with the feeling of doom overwhelming hope for the first time in the series because DEAN is at that point of hopelessness and it’s scary and it’s GREAT story telling.
PNP
Totally agree, JBB!
This one never made much sense to me either and I didn’t love the “zombie” angle.
It’s interesting to find out more about Bobby’s love, but I didn’t want it to be so sad. Seeing Bobby so vulnerable and begging the guys not to kill her, is heartbreaking.
I love the intro of Sheriff Jody and Kim is SO GREAT and making Jody feel so real, straight from the start. Such tragic situation for her character and I loved the interaction between Sam and Jody all through the episode starting with when he takes the burden of killing her son off her.
You make a great point about Jody already knowing more about Bobby. I think you might be right!
Bobby says that the Sheriff hated him until 5 days ago when the dead started rising all over town. So my thought was that Jody and Bobby at least connected over their dead loved ones being back? And that might be how she found out more about Bobby as a hunter?
I do like how confused Sam and Dean are at the beginning when Mr. Thompson confesses to be dead and to have killed a guy.
I did remember watching this for the first time and when Bobby comes into view at first I thought “wow, they cleaned up his appearance” – lol.
I do like how Sam and Dean become the voice of reason here and Bobby the reluctant nay-sayer. It’s almost like a role reversal.
I always have to laugh at the line of “Awesome. Another Horseman. Must be Thursday.” HA
But the rest of the story seemed forced and far fetched….even for SPN.
PNP
I forget every round of rewatching how great this episode is! Truly SCARY. Straight from the start!
That couple literally devouring each other is so creepy and sets the stage immediately to high stakes.
OOOH that red and green swirly wallpaper in the motel. Strong choice.
First view of Dean sitting in shirt and loose tie with his feet up on the table….HOT.
Hehe, Unattached Drifter Christmas.
When they meet the Cupid Dean’s reactions are ALL hilarious. The distaste on his face when the naked angel is standing in front of him. LOL And when he punches him and almost breaks his hand.
I know that the stuff the cupid says about Mary and John needing to meet and Sam and Dean needing to be born and how John and Mary couldn’t stand each other at first now goes directly against what we are seeing on The Winchesters, however, I never liked that notion here ever. The whole idea that Sam and Dean were “manufactured” never sat well with me. And it isn’t really pursued later into the seasons, so the statement here kind of hangs in the air alone.
Famine is sooooo incredibly creepy. They chose the perfect actor and I love how the character is made to look so frail and weak when he wields such terrible power. The threat of being completely out of control to reign in your impulses is terrifying and they made that very palpable in this episode and visually effective – like the guy sticking his hands into the deep fryer and his skin peeling off. The carnage at the Biggerson is awful.
I love how all the signs that something is wrong even with Sam and Cas are slowly creeping up. It’s very subtle until it’s not.
Poor Sam. I am glad he did say that Famine got to him! He could’ve tried to hide it. He looked so beaten when he told Dean, though. We could clearly see how much he hated to disappoint Dean.
I don’t buy what Famine is saying to Dean how his effect bounces off Dean because he is already dead inside. Dean is one of the most passionate and deep feeling people ever, he is NOT dead inside. I tend to believe it’s what DEAN said, that he’s just “well fed” and that’s why Famine can’t get a hook in with him. He’s too full of everything and there is no room for a hunger to catch on. Just because you don’t CRAVE something doesn’t mean your empty.
I think Famine just knows what to say to Dean to make him doubt himself and have a chink in his armor.
Yes, Dean is scared and overwhelmed standing against impossible odds. Only a fool wouldn’t be. But he is NOT dead inside.
“Americans are like a swarm of locusts in stretchpants.” HAHA. Sadly true for many.
I agree, JBB, Dean’s never ending snark in the presence of beings he has no chance fighting is WONDERFUL and inspiring. He will not and cannot just be meek and quiet! I love that so much. He won’t hide and he won’t show weakness, even when he knows his chances are slim to none to get out of a situation….there IS always a chance.
And it also makes the contrast to Dean being truly scared, like when Sam took out Famine with his mind, and at a low point, like at the very end of the episode, so much more stark and effective.
Great episode.
Okay! This one was REALLY good, I thought.
Interesting start, reminiscent of old SPN episodes. Dark and mysterious. Clearly from the past.
So, the Akrida had a run at the world in the 50’s? And might have wiped out the MoL?
To me the way this episode split our core four into pairs and had them working the case from two angles really worked. It focused on how the characters operate differently! Each pair of them really made an impact in their specific way. Each pair worked well together.
It seemed cohesive as an overall story even though what they dealt with was very different. We were about to get more specific impressions about each of the characters than if all four are together and vying for our attention!
Mary FINALLY seemed a little more natural and real to me in her interactions with John and the way they work on the case together. She’s less brash and more thoughtful. She wasn’t just bossing people around but had to think and act on her own. For the first time it actually gave me an impression of experience and poise under pressure and not just a petulant, frazzled teen. I liked Mary in this episode!
John is adorable and his smiles reminded me of SAM. And I really like that he is more observant and less “action first” in this episode. He made great use of his strength, but not as a blunt instrument. He felt like an actual HUNTER in this ep and not just the new kid on the block.
The banter between Carlos and Latha at the beginning was FUN and felt like real friends would rib each other. Also love the comment of Carlos’ about his perfectly proportioned shoulders. HA!
The two of them worked their end of the case in a very empathetic and gentle way and it was still effective. I loved the more gentle, but not silly or overly dramatic Carlos. He was warm and caring but still resourceful and smart.
And Latha wasn’t just a human computer archive this time but had actual PRACTICAL use of her knowledge and made it work. Love that. She also seemed less lofty and more grounded when helping Roxy discover her memories.
I had HIGH hopes there for a second we would finally see the BRITISH MOL be of use and without second agenda…..NOPE…still sadistic, selfish, torturing weirdos….AND not even British. HA! Nice twist. I did like that whole story.
HHHMMM, kinda lack luster motel room Roxy was hiding in. Not up to SPN standard! We need Jerry Wanek for THAT!
Catching the Akrida Cop was a little too easy…but at least Mary and John were working well together.
I LOVE a good Gollum story, but here it was a little too convenient. And why did it “ooze” or bleed when John hacked at it with a blade? I loved the SPN Gollum SO MUCH because the way they made it seem so clearly like he was made of wet clay.
Still, it was an enjoyable monster “guard” for the MoL bastard. And I had to laugh at the “damn covid mask”!! Pretty good idea to make it more difficult to get the scroll out of its mouth. HA. And I also applaud the innovative way to get rid of the scroll by decapitation with the heavy crematorium door and then setting it on fire! Nice touch and different from what we have seen in the past.
Why would Dean drive the Impala in the past? John doesn’t own her yet…
NICE job by the actress playing Roxy, the Radio DJ!
Interesting point on what one would do for love!!
However, the leap to “that never be us” implying LOVE between Mary and John was not working for me. As we said before….they were uneasy friends and suddenly jumped to LOVE??? NOPE. Still feels like I missed watching a couple of episodes in between at least!!
Quite possibly one of my favorite episodes this season!
UGH, the END, though didn’t work for me AT ALL. I JUST don’t like when SPN universe butts up against law enforcement!!! I didn’t like it on SPN, I don’t like it here. Hunters have PLENTY on their plates already. I just don’t need the “reality” of getting the authorities after them too. To me that’s a waste of good SPN story time.
Oh well, aside from that I really enjoyed the episode!!!
I agree with much you say, JBB.
Overall enjoyed it and the break from the Akrida story line and the episode as a whole but I also had several issues.
I DID enjoy Tom Welling as Samuel very much. To me his slightly out of touch gruffness in the beginning was fitting for that character to me. I loved how he waved John out of the chair he was sitting in, implying with one gesture that a young pup should respect his elders. And again when he corrected John, saying “Sam” to “SamUEL is fine” and squeezing his hand so hard that John cringed and shook it. Subtle signs of dominance, that were much like Mitch’s Samuel to me. I mean it’s HARD to compete with Mitch Pileggi, but I was not disappointed with Tom. I hope he’ll be back.
The conversations with Millie was great and felt real. The disdain for the “mole men” was funny, buried underground with their books. Knowing what Henry said to Sam and Dean about his preconceived notions about hunters, this was a great counterpoint. HA. And I did like a lot that Samuel softened later when he tried to explain himself in the end, before he left. It seemed genuine and believable to me. Like most hunter parents we met along the years, they TRY to keep the kids out or safe in an awkward way that never really works because most of the kids WANT to be in and help.
And THAT is one thing I did not enjoy….MARY….make your freaking mind up. If you are THAT set on being out (And I am just as sick to death as you are JBB of the constant, beating over the head mention of it!!!!) then ….don’t be all whiny and petulant about your dad trying to keep you out…. What sense does that make? And when she talked to Samuel at the end it seemed like now she wants to continue hunting. It just all seems immature flip flopping for me. There isn’t a real REASON for her to want out other than…she wants out and not live the life. But she has no issue running the show and bossing everyone around. So….make your mind up. UGH….the weird, uncomfortable kiss. SO out of place and again making Mary’s character look indecisive and unreliable. She JUST said she needs time…well, that was about 5 minutes….not enough time to feel realistic.
I REALLY enjoyed Carlos (and JoJo’s work) in this episode. Carlos seemed more balanced and a little more sincere or less comical, over the top (THAT was filled annoyingly by Loki AND RSJ). Aside from the singing, which was GORGEOUS and as you already said very unexpected (because I had not read any hype about it on line), Carlos also was more focused and operating on his own and I very much liked that.
I also LOVE the little moment at the beginning when John says he’ll stay behind with Mary and Samuel and Carlos stares at them both for a long moment and then says “I’ll allow it” HA.
I very much appreciate the deeper glimpse into Carlos’ past butting music career as well. It was the type of character story line I expected MUCH earlier in the season. It helps build a connection between audience and that character and make them 3D. I missed that so far. Now I got a sense of what he gave up for the hunting life, which in his case could have been fame and fortune with his voice… I do (like you) want to know the reason WHY he gave it up, though. Maybe we still get that later in the season?
I didn’t like that he so readily agreed to “the deal”. WHY? He didn’t even know the full scope of it and we had just gotten him to show that he was smart and more calculating like that. I never enjoy when action directs characters and not the other way around. (My main issue on Walker)
Lata continues to be too convenient and too sweet for me, too. You can be a pacifist and NOT be so cutsie. You can be strong and kind and just and find logical ways to deal with situations without violence. I don’t like when she’s cringing in the background of a fight making squeaky noises and looking outraged. It’s cliché and she’s better than that.
The fight scene against multiple Loki’s was kinda cool, though, because we hadn’t seen that before. I didn’t mind seeing everyone fight slightly differently.
LOKI…..well….I watched it again and I am STILL confused as hell. Was the entire episode written just so RJS could make a guest appearance?? Maybe. Funny or sad enough, there were plenty of things that I DID like the episode so the parts with Loki and RJS’ over-the-top, cringy, clowny performance did not ruin it for me. What happened?? RJS was so so good in SPN as Gabriel and Loki and the Trickster. Cheeky, yes, but also sarcastic enough to give it some edge and you could always feel that there was a somewhat dangerous layer to him. HERE….he was just annoying with the thousand finger snaps and the odd overacted lines.
And I do not get AT ALL what his character was after. Like you said, it felt like a demon deal to me, NOT like what we know Loki/the Trickster to enjoy doing to his victims. There weren’t any “just desserts”. The singers wanted success, I guess, but where is the teaching a lesson aspect? Demons just want to hurt people, but Loki was always more about giving bullies and assholes a kick in the pant. And was part of the “deal” with Loki that it had to be THAT song that had to be sung? Everyone hummed it and sang it who ended up dead or burned.
And even the curse itself was confusing. You get the tattoo and you need to sing TO a person to make them burn instead of yourself? I didn’t understand if that was just ONE time, like a payment for the singer’s upcoming success? Or once per performance forever? The whole thing was not well explained and therefore useless as story point.
I also have to say that I am not 100% in love with the music they chose for TW. Although 70’s it’s a bit too POP and less ROCK to me and it sometimes seems like a sad shadow of the OG show.
The concert was fun. Even if Louden Swain was sadly wasted as background décor. loved the little moment where Lata says she’s more of a metal head. HA, unexpected. The Jericho Kid’s voice wasn’t bad either earlier in the epidose.
LOVE your comments on the dark room. I was only thinking “Set Up the dark room? Odd.” Wouldn’t they have a fixed one on the basement or something? Thinking how they would need the ability to develop film with creepy things on it themselves.
OMGS! You hit it on the head with your observations about the Dean narration! HE WOULD NEVER SAY ANY OF THESE THINGS!!! The words are too stilted and weirdly “domesticated” and NOT Dean. And hearing Jensen’s Dean voice just makes me sad and miss Dean SOO freaking much. I hate to say it, but I really would prefer him NOT narrating TWs!!
Sooo many questions about Dean showing up in the photo at the end!!! Now that is intriguing and feels very SPN to me. WHY did Dean zap back to this time? And I even more so want to know from which point in the SPN story did he zap back and give John the letter? I know Robbie Thompson teased that he’ll explain all that in episode 13….I am very curious.
And fans raining hate on Jensen from keeping Sam out of that photo….sorry to say but….get over it! Jensen is NOT erasing Sam….he even said Jared would be a narrator at some point (if we get more episodes). I simply don’t get and don’t want to indulge or give footing to this odd division in the fandom that wants to see only one or the other side of Sam and Dean. To me they are ONE brotherly unit and there are no conspiracies to keep them apart or value one over the other….just…NO.
I normally LIKE the funny episodes…..BUT….this is definitely one of my least favorites. In fact, every time I watch it, I like it less.
It’s all a little too campy and the swapping body thing has been done and done better.
Like, how are the clothes magically adjusting to the VERY different body of Gary and Sam?
Why would Gary know to look into the glove compartment and find the other phones?
It takes Dean way too long to figure out that’s not Sam.
And Sam wouldn’t be SO rude to Gary’s family after he figured out that he’s in the wrong body.
It’s all a little too convenient to make sense or a good case.
The demons reaching out to witches to offer a reward was too far fetched to me.
I felt hit over the head with the whole “normal family life sucks” from Sam. I get that he changed his mind on the subject, didn’t need this episode to drill it in.
Maybe I’m just grumpy.
Yeah, there are funny moments. The scene in front of the mirror was well done.
My favorite element is Nora, the nerd turned demon, she is a great actress and to watch (I think she was on Buffy and I really enjoyed her there as well).
But overall….I give this a 4 out of 10….and that’s mostly because of Nora.
What WOULD have been funny is if Sam had a sore ass at the end sitting in the Impala because Crystal the dominatrix stripes his butt….hehe
The way the Winchesters scheme their way INTO the Psych ward is so funny to me.
What’s with the creepy CLOWN pics Martin is drawing? HAHA. I’m glad they didn’t kill Martin off right away. He is an interesting addition to the complex hunter world! SO MANY issues. Seeing someone who has actually given up hunting out of guilt and fear is something totally new here. And the actor is excellent.
Very well-written AND acted exchanges between Dean and the female doctor! Love the honesty from Dean. How at first it just seems like a safe bet that no one will believe him anyway and then he’s almost getting emotional about it when she asks just the right questions. And THEN to find out she isn’t even real?! Great surprise.
Good fight scenes between Sam and the orderlies! Sam does a lot of fighting and resisting in this episode.
LOVE the pudding scene, of course! “Crazy works!”
LOVE the scene between Dean and HIGH AS A KITE Sam!! It’s really cute and SO brotherly – heart-felt and truthful. And you can totally see the perfect mix of concern and annoyance in Dean’s face. HA
Overall this is another of those episodes that start with a lot of humor and turn SO dark when their “conscience” is starting to talk to Sam and Dean and we get a glimpse at their very real self-doubt and self-loathing! Really heavy and sad stuff but so excellently interwoven that it makes for great entertainment.
Seeing Dean so scared and confused is both funny as well as heart-breaking at first and then really freaking scary when he feels it’s out of control. Jensen is SO great!
Sam’s reaction to the doctor telling him that his uncontrolled violence is greatly concerning is sad to watch as well. Especially because it sticks with him after the effects of the wraith and the drugs wear off! He is so desperate there at the end when he tells Dean that he scares himself with his anger. It’s a VERY Sam and Dean moment. Sam wanting to talk, Dean needing to bury it.
I very much appreciate the twist that “poor, pathetic” Martin finds the courage and stands up to help. He ISN’T useless, he actually saves Sam from killing the doc, he helps Dean to focus and figure the case out, give him a chance to run, he very much is the hero here.
Kinda jarring that Sam and Dean totally ditch him and leave him in there to face all consequences alone! I always wondered if there was another scene maybe that didn’t make the final cut to explain that?
Another CONVENIENTLY parked Impala in the woods within easy running distance from the looney bin. HEHE.
It’s a very good episode.
Couldn’t agree with ALL you said more! So I won’t repeat any of it. What a masterful episode!!
A few additional thoughts:
I loved Crowley’s introduction. His snark, his confidence, his style, his pad. And they couldn’t have chosen better than Mark S.!!
Love that Crowley is watching horrible things like Hitler for entertainment!
Jo looked HOT in that little black number and played the damsel in distress perfectly before she totally kicks ass!
Crowley’s way to give Sam and Dean JUST enough info to be useful tools, but not enough to hurst him is so fun to watch.
And I love watching how even Dean’s legendary lack of reverence at strong supernatural beings fails him here just a little bit when meeting Crowley. HA!
LOVE LOVE LOVE the scenes at Bobby’s house!!! And our recreation of that final photo is sitting on my night stand and gives me so much joy every day!!! Making it AND seeing it! Thank you for all involved!
And I have a TON of respect for the writers that they NEVER made Dean and Jo into anything more than a fun flirt and a crash and burn for Dean. Amazing how Jo teases Dean and THEN shoots him down! All that made the final kiss THAT much more emotionally valid and important!
GREAT pan shot from behind Cas making an empty street into a Reaper filled one.
Mark P.’s early portrayal of Lucifer’s utter contempt for human kind is chilling.
There are SO MANY important players in this episode it’s astounding.
I remember being SHOCKED that Ellen and Jo both died in this episode. They had so much more story in them. Yes, their deads made a deep impact on Sam and Dean, but I still think that killing them wasn’t necessary to drive the story forward. What a sad waste, as amazingly touching and impactful as those scenes were. It really felt like mother/daughter energy for me. It is so HARD to watch!
GREAT make up on Jo, making her all grey and looking like she lost a lot of blood.
Dean reaching out to Bobby and his relief at hearing his voice and looking for reassurance is a GREAT scene. All of the characters seem so incredibly real in these scenes.
There is NOTHING more scary than seeing your one and only chance fail. And you can see that on the guys’ faces. Especially after what they just lost. That was a shocker.
I also LOVE that after the initial shock wears off – or at least Sam believes he is not in immediate danger – he goes straight back into research mode and asks Lucifer some questions. That is brave, too.
Pretty ruthless of Cas to use Meg as a bridge over the Holy Fire. HA!
Bobby shouldn’t have burned the photo at the end, but I get that it stood in for a hunter’s funeral they weren’t able to have for Jo and Ellen! And I love that no words were spoken in the last scene!
Gods, I love this one SO MUCH. Just the idea to go so meta and bring in fan conventions into the actual show was brilliant.
Straight from the start when they park the Impala next to….more Impalas.
Dean’s disgust and astonishment at the entire idea of a SPN con is hilarious.
All the bad costumes and corny merch and themed drinks….YUP, totally happening. It’s a shame that they weren’t able to include a Castiel costume contest, because he wasn’t yet in any of the books. THAT would have been perfect.
And in return the incredulity of Barnes and Damien when they see ghosts are real and the Salt-n-Burn actually works is priceless.
I do like that Chuck tries to stand up to the Winchesters about not having any other skills and needing to publish more books. And Rob KILLED it at the neverending Q&A panel! HAHAHA – it was so painfully awkward.
It’s also a real accomplishment that the episode still manages to have a real creepy case and even a nice twist on who the bad guy is amongst all the chaos of the con.
And making the FANS save the day by salting and burning the kids’ bones was awesome. To me that was a nice nod of the head from the writers to the fans acknowledging that WE keep Sam and Dean (aka the show) alive!! And as unrealistic and fictional as it all is, I would hope that SOME real fans would be brave enough to jump into action when we finally find out that it IS all real and the world is in peril. LOL
I always applauded the choice the writers made to focus on a pair of gay partners RPG’ing Sam and Dean and the particular actors who were cast. They were a joy to watch. Not sure if the writers meant to poke fun at the mountain of slash fan fic out there at that point but I liked it.
LOVE the difference in how Sam and Dean are dealing with the RPG crowd. Dean just want to punch them all in the face for quoting his own lines and Sam trying to cooperate to get somewhere quicker in the investigation. And even Sam playing along with Becky’s good bye speech was sweet.
Underneath all the fun and obvious jokes, though, we still get a real emotional sense on how hard it is for Dean to see his life “played with” and his choices and decisions to be rolled out in front of his eyes. He likes to bury things…being made to look at it again must be extra painful for him. Especially such scene as the Asylum conversation.
But that whole situation really grounds the episode and makes it emotional and relatable. When the two RPG guys in the end tell Dean that he’s wrong and how much Sam and Dean mean to them and inspire them….that was beautiful and speaking straight for all of us fans!
I am glad they only gave us a little hint at Dean being taken aback to find out Barnes and Damien are gay. He made condescending remarks about “nice to get out of your parents basement and make some friends” but I’m glad they left it at “OH” and “Howdy partners” for the rest!
A ton of fun AND heart!
And the final twist with Becky knowing about Bela, Crowley and the Colt!! WOW. I always wondered what else Sam and Dean could have learned from reading the books that they didn’t already know.
Ask the fans!! They know more about your story than you do. HEHE. YUP, we do!
Yeah, this one, especially after the AMAZING “The End” was pretty much a throwaway episode to me.
I do appreciate that Dean and Sam take time to grow back together, but it was a little heavy handed in this episode. I get that Dean needs time to trust Sam again, but this seemed to go a little far at times.
I also didn’t really like the message of worshipping the “wrong idols”. I mean, here we are FANS of this show and definitely worshipping all to do with it….are WE going to be eaten by a monster for it?
And the idea of old world gods who are taking their own dues because they are no longer fed by the adoration of their followers was also not new in SPN….HELLO, CHRISTMAS EPISODE.
Paris Hilton….what odd choice! I was never a fan of hers or understood why one would be….but I do have a little more respect for her now hearing about her absolutely horrendous adolescence.
Anyhow…the supposed humor in this one fell flat for me, too.
And Sam digging into the corpse randomly and coming up with the seeds was just silly.
And NOONE is unconscious and standing up like that when tied to a tree.
Well, the episodes can’t all be winners.
The only decent scenes to me where the Sam and Dean talks about making some changes. Sam taking full responsibility, but also asking for leeway to grow up. They were heartfelt and real feeling conversations.
That’s all I have to say about that. 🙂
PNP
I cannot sing praises any louder than you, two, already have! I agree with EVERYTHING you both said!
One of the top 5 best EVER episodes for me, too.
There isn’t a minute in this one that DOESN’T work.
VERY GOOD Question, Kate, about if any of this was real or not or an alternate universe. Any of that could be the truth.
EXCELLENT point, JBB, about the flip phone being so much more effective to “slam”. HA!
Jensen is giving a freaking MASTERCLASS in acting in this episode! There is no question about that. The range of emotions he has to go through from BOTH Dean’s is off the chart and it’s no wonder he was exhausted by the end of it.
I also agree with both of you that Jensen is overall the better actor (by a good clip) of the two but Jared is holding his own very nicely throughout the series and shines on many occasions very brightly, too. I don’t want to take credit from him but I do think that Jared acting with and opposite Jensen makes his performances better! That HAS to be it, because I honestly fail to see how he can be very good in this show and makes such utterly bad or at least questionable acting choices at the moment on Walker!!!!
UGH, you can see it’s KILLING Dean to say to Sam that they need to stay apart to dodge Michael and Lucifer. Having this scene on the heels of Dean telling Cas that he’s happier without Sam, makes me even more convinced that Dean doesn’t WANT to be apart from Sam, but that it was a necessary break and now it’s the smart choice for the time being.
It’s so interesting to me how I feel about the two Deans in this episode! Because they really aren’t the same person. At the beginning of the episode I feel squarely in 2009-Dean’s corner. Discovering his future self and how far that Dean has been gone past anything Past-Dean can imagine himself do is so shocking, you can see him shaken to his core and I feel for him deeply. I want to shake Future-Dean by the collar and snap him out of it. But when Future-Dean tells the other about Sam having said yes and he’s begging him to make other choices and say yes to Michael, I understand him, his choices, his closed off demeanor. And I want Past-Dean to listen. Just for a moment. Future Dean is SO DEEPLY desperate, still caring for the planet’s population, trying to save what he can. It’s heartbreaking. Then he suddenly gives up and stops trying to convince his counterpart because he does know that it’s pointless. (ABSOLUTELY STELLAR SCENE by the way! The writing and the execution are just out of this world!!) Then once you realize Future-Dean uses his team pretty much as canon fodder, I am again completely on 2009-Dean’s side with the outrage and disbelief, horrified that Dean’s been pushed past where loss of close allies even registers as wrong. What a rollercoaster ride.
Hippie-Cas is a DELIGHT but it’s also oddly sad to see him that way, feeling useless and hopeless, trying to numb the paid, basically. Misha must have had a blast playing him.
I do think Jared is doing a very good job NOT being Sam when he’s playing Lucifer. The confrontation between Dean and Lucifer is chilling for sure. Lucifer’s condescending manner is creepy and infuriating. Dean’s bravado to sass at the devil is impressive and even more impressive is Jensen’s way to make Dean look both cocky and terrified all at the same time. GREAT scene all around. ONE criticism I do have is that I never liked the white suit look!! I know Lucifer is the Lightbringer etc. etc. but it’s too on the nose for me the stick him into a white shiny suit. And a cheap looking one at that.
Seeing Dean UTTERLY alone at the end of this conversation is also truly disturbing!!! The idea that he might end up RIGHT THERE in five years with all of his allies dead and his brother being the sock puppet for the devil must be crushing and we can see that in his expression. UGH.
LOVE the “ghost of Christmas screw you” line!!!
I also agree with Dean’s words of “Don’t ever change” to Cas! Unfortunately the writers had other plans.
I LOOOOVE most of all that Dean in the end does the ONE thing he CAN control in this whole mess! Get Sam back by his side. Cause if THAT was the beginning of the end, that they didn’t talk for five years…..well, then, THAT Dean can fix.
I really think the tentative nature of their reunion is the perfect way to bring them back together here. They are not ok….not yet and not fully, but they haven’t given up trying either and that is so realistic to me, it makes it most believable. And I very much appreciate that Sam is truly thankful for being let back in, because he knew it was not a given.
And to me the very end of the episode with Dean saying “We make our own future”, effectively saying that they HAVE a choice to change , and Sam saying “Guess, we have no choice”, to me implying that their hand was forced, is GENIUS writing!!!
Mindboggling how TV can be THIS good!!! GLAD to have it recorded for the ages and being able to go back to it regularly. JUST AMAZING!
I remember thinking the first time I watched this episode that Jessica must be Sam’s conscious talking to him and I felt so bad for him. Having the person you loved and still miss a lot really playing on your guilt and fear of your own darker nature and casually accusing you of getting her killed is brutal. I thought Jared played the mix of believing her words and still hoping to escape what he fears is his fate really well.
And at the very end when we find out it’s been Lucifer all along….that was a nice unexpected twist of the knife in the gut. When Sam still thinks it’s Jess, he looks so longing, it’s sweet! And I do like that he is MORE convinced that he CAN change and redeem himself than at the beginning of the episode.
PERFECT montage at the beginning to Simple Man. I agree with you both! The editing is SUPERB!
(LOVE SAM in the light gray v-necked tshirt!!)
I MISS awkward Cas!! He was SOOOO much more fun to watch at the beginning. He really got too human and soft for me in the later seasons. Here he is perfectly puzzled by humanity and still a little scary in his quiet power. And his slightly stiff manner and stilted choice of words was also perfect. And his lack of pop culture knowledge was endearing and funny. SIGH. I mean lines like “Where have you been?” “Jerusalem” “Oh, how was it?” “Arrid” – come on….it’s GOLD!
Dean and Cas working a case together was quite entertaining. I loved the whole talk to the Deputy at the police station!
Lindsey IS ANNOYING. I have nothing against a strong female who knows what she wants and goes for the guy, but the way they wrote her was too college student flirty and nosy. She didn’t fit the pattern of other girls Sam was interested in so far and I didn’t see him responding to her with anything but friendly indifference. She’s way too pushy, kinda demands personal info about Sam she has no right, too, even when he CLEARLY wants to keep to himself…. All that made even the better scene with her telling Sam about her sober journey kinda flat for me. However, I do appreciate that she stayed pretty calm and collected amidst the fight with the other hunters! I am glad she wasn’t made into a screeching damsel in distress.
I always thought, although funny, that the brothel scene was a bit of a stretch. Nice that Dean wants to get Cas a fun experience, but I don’t see Dean actually frequenting a brothel himself. He doesn’t have to!! Dean fucking Winchester doesn’t PAY for sex. However, I DO like that nothing actually happens and the girl who takes Cas with her actually kicks him out. HEHE.
Raphael is very intimidating! Another QUIET presence that radiates power and an utter disregard for humanity it seems. I actually love the fact that angels we see caught in a burning ring of holy oil DON’T freak out or look around in a panic, because they KNOW it’s pointless and it shows how unconcerned with time they are. They can wait there, for help or whatever else might happen to disrupt the fire. Even if they have to wait til the floor crumbles from age….they have time. HA.
I LOOOOVE when Dean gets righteously PISSED at beings so much more powerful than he is and who he knows could kill him in an instant because these beings act carelessly about the earth and the people on it!!!! Dean CARES, so much, about everyone else but himself, and these moments always remind us of that core value he carries all the time. It is AWESOME to watch Dean talking to Raphael and heartbreaking at the same time. (And Jensen is a master at bringing this to life). And I love seeing some of that rub off on Cas.
DID Lucifer bring Cas back???
I’m not a big fan of the whole fight with the returning hunters. How would they have gotten the idea that Sam would “hulk out” after drinking demon blood? From the demon the caught and tortured? Why would that demon say that? The whole thing always seems to me like a labored plot point of trying to show us that NOW Sam can withstand temptation of the blood. And even that really doesn’t work for me as he didn’t really make a choice. They forced the blood into his mouth and he spit some of it back out. OK. But that doesn’t read like an active turning away from it to me. And I didn’t believe for a minute that Sam would have actually killed the other hunters. So it didn’t work for me either that he looked at Lindsey and then lets the hunter go. Anyhow…didn’t like that scene much.
I know that Dean says he’s happier without Sam at the end, but I don’t buy it. He has less of a burden worrying about Sam all the time, that is true, but I understood that to not just mean the past fall out over the demon blood, Ruby and the Apocalypse, I think he meant it’s a relieve not having to worry about Sam at all for a bit because he’s been looking out for him his whole life. And this separation was one they BOTH wanted and felt was best. So there isn’t guilt on Dean’s part for leaving Sam OR anger about Sam leaving him. It’s just a break in a way they haven’t had. And having a little break every once in a while is good for ANY partnership.
Mark Pellegrino was SO GOOD as Lucifer in the beginning!!! Again, with the quiet, gentle, calm from a powerful angel!! It makes him SO scary because you can understand why people would give in to his argumentation.
I also think Jared is fantastic in this scene. Sam looks completely shocked to find out that he is Lucifer’s vessel! Shocked and dismayed. When he just was convinced that he had a chance to change and not give in to whatever darkness he carries, now he finds out that he was supposed to be cast as the major bad in the apocalypse? It’s devastating. And you can feel all that from Jared’s performance.
GOOD episode! Season 5 got real intense real quick!
