PigNaPoke
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Having the first case of Season 3 involve the Seven Deadly Sins is really intriguing. After having opened Hell and letting out all kinds of nasties, this sets up the higher stakes of what they might be up against nicely. So far we thought Azazel was as bad as it got…..NOW….we get a glimpse of all kinds of new possibilities for evil. It’s interesting and scary.
If Bobby is being scared….I sure as hell am worried FOR them all. (“What’s in the box?” HAHAHA. LOVE “Seven”)
GREAT fight in the bar with Bobby driving his car through the wall.
I also applaud SPN yet again for hiring great guest actors. Isaac and Tamara are portrayed excellently and the actor playing Envy is very good as well. I especially love Tamara and find it sad that she never should up again.
Very good introduction of a new character in Ruby – lurking on the edges and then seemingly coming in to save them – AND the knife! I love that the knife is one of the few things that stayed important and useful all the way through the next 13 seasons.
I remember the first time I watched this episode that I was PISSED with Dean for seemingly throwing himself to the dogs ahead of schedule. But that part of the episode’s story totally flipped on me once I started rewatching seasons.
Now I love the seemingly carefree attitude Dean displays here at the beginning. Just living it up and “not sweating the cholesterol”. Even milking the fact that he only has a year every chance he gets. It’s fun to see him cocky and having fun, even though, we (and he) know what’s looming.
He starts out having well deserved fun but we soon see the deeper fear in Dean. I don’t think he ever regrets the deal he made for Sam, but I do love that he admits later down the road that he really doesn’t want to die.
As a whole I always liked the urgency Season 3 had because of its limited episodes – due to the writers strike! I think it really helped drive home the desperation of trying to find a way out of Dean’s deal.
I LOVE that Sam voices his frustration and Dean tells the truth at the end of the episode and he doesn’t hide the fact that he was told there is no way out of the deal that doesn’t involve Sam dying. But it’s so heartbreaking that he is ok with dying because he claims he’s tired and done enough for the family. UGH. And there is a strange innocence in him being ok with going to hell as long as Sam lives….obviously neither of them has a real concept of hell yet. Maybe seeing John getting out of hell gave a wrong impression of it being “just a place” you go after dying?
Good season start!
Sam’s hair is STUPID!
What a GREAT season finale!! I remember watching it the first time and being amazed at the span of emotions I went through from BAWLING my eyes out at Dean’s pain in the beginning to immense relief at getting Sam back to cheering for Ellen’s return and the triumph at the cemetery to tentative hope that they would figure out a way to save Dean.
MAN, rollercoaster doesn’t even cover it. It was an emotional marathon. And THEN…..you wait for months during hellatus to even hear if you ever will find out what happens next or if that was IT for the series. LOL.Anyhow, a really good episode.
Yes, you both already said it, but there can NEVER be enough praise for Jensen on his acting! Considering this was only season two and he said many times they were still finding their legs as the characters, it’s still a scene that stands TALL and true all these years later. BRAVO
I always particularly admired Jensen for the quick change of emotion he can pull of with so much nuance, like when he shouts at Bobby and then immediately apologizes after – twice – making the quick swivel from absolute grieve-driven anger to remorse totally real.
What makes me MOST sad in this episode (besides just seeing Dean in this much pain over the loss) is the fact that is really drives the point home how little Dean thinks of himself. He blames and beats himself up for failing Sam and John, then he gets further humiliated by the cross road demon basically telling him that he’s not worth anything by a pity deal of one year, then we hear him confess to Bobby that he at least wanted to pay for John’s sacrifice with his own life because he wasn’t supposed to be alive anyway….OUCH!!! SO many hits on him. It’s gut wrenching.
Like you, kate, I want to scream at the TV every time Dean makes that deal. I always want to tell him negotiate for more time at least. You are WORTH so much more.
I loved the tie in with Samuel Colt, the huge devils trap, the way the gun was the key….ALL of that was GREAT and I absolutely love that we get “Frontierland” and even more of a glimpse into that back story later. What cool idea that was.
I have softened a lot over the years regarding John’s way of raising the boys. I never doubted his love for them, but I do still think he failed them miserably many times and although he “did his best” it wasn’t good enough in many places. I think the older I get the more I see how hard live is for so many people and how much is out of one’s control and that has helped me be more sympathetic to John. And to see here that he crawled his way out of hell and help his sons to defeat the freaking monster that had sent them all down this road to begin with was cathartic and a great story point!!!
Love the whole cemetery scene with all its different views and mini actions. And the shot of Dean firing the colt was EPIC!
I also love the scene right after it’s all over where Sam asks Dean if he really thinks that was John and where he thinks John went. Jared manages to make Sam sound SO young and insecure here. It’s sweet and gives a glimpse at “little brother” Sam and that even big Sam still leans on Dean for assurance. Really nice moment especially in contrast to brutal Sam from before and confident Sam in the scene later where he vows to save Dean for a change. Jared does a fine job with all of that.
Lots to love in this episode all around.
PNP
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When Azazel was taunting Dean in the graveyard, he implied that what was resurrected might not have been “100% Sam”. Do you guys think the writers were initially going to take the story that way but changed their minds between seasons 2 and 3? Or do you think that was just a misdirect? I’m curious, because early in season 3 (“Sin City”, I think), Dean asks Bobby the same thing about Sam. It really made me wonder. And wouldn’t it have been VERY Interesting if the story had actually gone that way?
I always thought they left the door open a little to potentially make Sam semi-evil? Didn’t I read that in an interview somewhere that Kripke didn’t intend at the beginning that the brothers would necessarily end up on the same side?
I do think that Azazel was just messing with Dean, but I also think that the writers kept some doubt in Dean’s mind for a long while, maybe even after his stint in Hell.
PNP
Another question: When Dean gets to the crossroads, Lloyd’s bar isn’t there. Do you guys think that was an oversight? I guess we’re supposed to believe that Dean found another crossroad that just happened to have enough loose gravel so he could dig a hole with his bare hands. Okay…
I always understood ANY cross roads to work for a deal as long as you put the right stuff into the box.
I LOVE the backstory about Samuel Colt and the devil’s trap. That’s so ingenious! Question: Did Colt’s railway fail? The demons blasted through it, right?
I always understood that JAKE laid a charge and blew the rail road tracks? We seen them ripped apart in one shot. To me they needed a human both to enter the devils trap to get to the Hell gate AND to take care of an escape route.
But I could be totally wrong.
Ahh…this is the first time we hear “Carry On” in a season finale. That song will never be the same for me. It will always have meaning and will always make me a little sad. 🙁
Interesting point, kate!
Was the meaning of the refrain of “Carry On” ever positive for you?? Like, did it mean to you that there would be rest and a good life at the end?For me it never was. I always understood the lyrics to mean they’ll be peace when you are dead.
Morbid, I know, but to me the song is about a person who toils and gets tossed around by life and beaten down with little hope for something better, but a peace at the very end of the road aka death.
PNP
I have a love-hate relationship with this episode.
I love that so much happens, that the pace is pretty furious, that we learn a lot of new plot points. Love the mood and look of the episode (that last crane shot is insanely gorgeous and effective). LOVE LOVE LOVE the acting – mostly from Jensen and Jared, but also from the variety of the other psychics!
I enjoy the quick succession of tragic events as story telling goes. It leaves the audience just as puzzled and breathless as the characters. Dean’s desperation all through it really palpable, “losing” Sam, losing the roadhouse and thinking Ellen and Ash are both lost, trying to find Sam, just to lose Sam for real! WOW…and all that in 42 minutes??? That is a LOT of plot to absorb.
Then we also find out all of the new things about the psychic children. I really like the mix of characters there – high strung Ava is just as annoying as she needs to be; sweet Andy is just as clueless and harmless as before; the tragic lesbian is just as angry and rebellious as one could expect; Jake is just lethal and stoic enough to make him intimidating. For me the mix works for tension and I also appreciate Sam stepping into the leader role and trying to keep order.
And I very much appreciate – however ill fated – that Sam didn’t kill Jake but keeps the hope alive that they can work together on a solution.
But, of course, I HATE the episode for all of the awful things happening to Dean and Sam! The back and forth between hope and despair is such emotional rollercoaster I get goosebumps every time I watch it.
The last scene still has me on the edge of my seat every time I watch it. Even knowing all that is to follow, it still feels real and raw and so so painful to see Dean go through that.
UGH
Speaking of annoying, this was the episode that really made me dislike Mary. In Sam’s flashback, Mary clearly recognized Azazel, which means she remembered her deal and chose to ignore it. She was from a line of hunters going all the way back to the Mayflower, had access to the family library, and extensive resources. She could’ve at least looked for a way to break her deal. Bobby figured a way out in a year – Mary had ten. She could’ve told John THE TRUTH about who she was, and the two of them could’ve found a way out together. Ignoring her deal was naïve, selfish, and illogical.
I am 100% with you on this, kate! I never forgave Mary for that either.
Of course, I can understand that she wanted OUT of the Hunting life and wanted to have a family. As with Dean (and Sam) no one should be forced to live their entire life like that, if they don’t feel it’s right for them, however, as you said she could have told John the truth and explained that in order to get out of the life they would have to take care of this one thing together to protect their family.
From a story point, though,…we would have NO SPN if Mary had acted differently. HAHAHA. And I appreciate how it makes it all so complicated with her wanting out so her family wouldn’t have to live like that and causing the exact outcome by being selfish.
PNP
In Sam’s dream with Azazel, the demon said there were “other generations” of chosen psychics. If the chosen psychic was to lead hell’s army by being Lucifer’s vessel, does that mean Dean and Sam (and their family bloodline) weren’t the only “true” vessels for Lucifer and Michael? That has always bothered me. Am I conflating separate events? I know this other part doesn’t come up until season 4, but Alistair tells Dean that John was supposed to break the first seal, but Alistair couldn’t break John under torture. And Castiel tells Dean that the one who breaks the first seal is the only one who can “stop” the apocalypse (presumably by being Michael’s vessel). If both of those things are true, then the original apocalypse battle was supposed to be between Sam and John, not Sam and Dean. Thoughts?
Hi Kate,
yes, I wondered about the correlation between the psychic children and vessel thing, too! Remembering what Michael says as he’s “wearing” John in “The Song Remains The Same” later being Lucifer’s and Michael’s vessels is a bloodline thing going back to Cain and Abel! Meaning the plan to have human meat puppets through the generations was always there and took a lot of doing. So with that in mind, I can imagine that Hell had equally long standing plans to start the Apocalypse and have generations of potential leaders of the Demon army at hand. (And considering the story line in “Salvation” where Sam and Dean save Baby Rosie from becoming a psychic child it seems that Hell is still building future generations of candidates.) I don’t necessarily think that the leader of the army had to be Lucifer’s vessel, though. Was that ever stated? It could just be lucky coincident for Hell to get Sam as the leader of the army AND be the true vessel also. Maybe the true vessel has to be from their bloodline, but the leader of the army can be any of the psychic children.
I am also not sure if John and Sam were supposed to be in the big fight or just that it could have been any number of relatives before and after them? I always assumed that Azazel was simply stirring the pot and making Sam WANT to fight for his life and be the last one standing by default?I also always wondered if the type of psychic powers each of the children got was total luck of the draw? Sam’s ability to see some events of the future – especially the one’s pertaining to the other psychics – seem kinda pointless? Or were they simply meant to lead him to the others so the “Hunger Games” could start?
OR was the point that he never leaned into his real abilities and only developed those later under Ruby’s misguidance?So much stayed shadowy about these plans but I don’t really mind that. Chalk it up as mystery of the universe.
It was an intriguing story line for sure.
Late to the party and not much to add as you two said EVERYTHING I LOVE about this episode already so eloquently!!!
It is one of my top ten ever episodes as well and I am always equally excited and sad when it’s up in my rotation of viewing the entire series.
I really found the choices of the writers here interesting to present Dean still as a pretty troubled soul with some rough patches in the past and some callous behavior (stealing money from mom, drinking too much, forgetting his mom’s birthday, never having helped around the house)!! If this was his dream life, why didn’t the Djinn make him perfect, too?
Or is that just a sign of how Dean in his dream life wants good things for all the people he loves but still thinks so little of himself that he only deserves a certain measure of happiness (Carmen) and not the whole pie? I mean it was pretty clear that even in this dream version, Dean was not the most integrated into the family from everyone else’s remarks.
And does that mean then that loosing his mom and growing up the tough way he did WITH Sam by his side (and John training them) and all the responsibility in the world dumped on him from an early age made him actually MORE empathetic and caring about others?SO many interesting psychological moments here.
I always have the feeling in this episode that Dean is hopeful that he could fix his relationship with Sam if he’s given a chance. It clearly bothers him that they don’t get along. Until he figures out that this is not a real live and then come the two most heartbreaking moments for me in this episode: first when Dean effectively gives up on the staying there while talking to John in the graveyard and second when he says goodbye to Sam and asks him to tell his mom that he loves her. UGH! Both so sad. (AND brilliantly acted)
I will forever be grateful on behalf of Dean that he DID have the year with Lisa and Ben at least and had a taste of a home life and being a dad and having a good partner. It was lovely to see a hint of that here as well and I do also love Carmen, who seemed pretty similar to Lisa to me in her down-to-earth-practicality and her support of Dean.
Where I differ a little with you two’s view is the fact that I believe that Dean does give up his dream of a family life somewhere down the road. I do think he wants to semi-retire with less hunting at the end of season 15 and, of course, I agree that he absolutely should have had that opportunity for YEARS but I don’t think that Dean envisioned a family (partner and kid) at that time anymore. I think by the time Dean makes the decision to let Lisa and Ben go because he believes that he just can’t guarantee their safety and can’t leave the hunting life either THAT dream of having a stable life as a dad and partner dies. And he later replaces the idea of an “alternative life” with a different vision.
Anyhow – AMAZING episode and one that keeps me thinking and trying to puzzle out all of the many layers.
PNP
This is a rare case of an episode I use to look forward watching and enjoyed well and which is NOW totally switched to annoy me in many parts.
First off, hate to say it, but I always did (and nowadays even more so) find it hugely unrealistic that Sam and Dean would be stupid enough to risk going to jail on a flimsy case of “dad owed this guy so we need to make good on it” when they know that they had the FBI on their asses?! WHAT?? Nooo way. There are way too many variables that could have gone wrong that would not have gotten them exactly to that jail Deacon was in. And when it DOES go wrong and Hendricksen shows up….even Dean would have been way more tense all the way during their time in jail about what’s about to happen after. They have more self-preservation instinct than that, and if nothing else, Dean wouldn’t want to risk Sam in that way.
So the entire premise of the episode doesn’t really work for me anymore. Plus you already know that I am not a fan of the FBI involvement anyway….this just plays that up even more and I don’t enjoy how it limits the boys in their movements and possible actions. BUT IF you have to bring that into the show, then make it realistic, which this here is not to me. Anyhow – moving on.Secondly – lots about the stint in jail seems very gimicky to me nowadays. Like how a CW show for a YA audience would imagine jail: bad food, cigarette trading, ability to talk to other inmates in solitary, huge cell mates, shower jokes, yadayadayada….really? Mildly amusing, yes, but also so far from reality that it’s not really compelling to me.
YES, I do enjoy seeing Dean be versatile and fitting in anywhere because he’s smart and a good judge of people! BUT here it’s so expected because its been pushed so hard on us how “Dean’s the tough one” and the borderline criminal etc. I would have found it way more interesting if SAM was the one who would have fit well into jail – playing up his anger about the whole situation and his worry about becoming a monster etc. I thought that’s a missed opportunity here.
Funny side note: Clif said in an interview I listened to recently that Jensen didn’t like the way the prison uniform looked on him and had it taken in some and tailored to him. And everyone teased him about it. HAHAHA.
Thirdly – the ghost story was odd and inconclusive and somehow even unimportant as the focus for me was much more on “how the heck are they going to get out?”. I liked the LOOK of the scary ghost eyes, though. The rest about the case was pretty forgettable to me.
And LASTLY there are the blatant holes in the story like old and rusty cells with still blood-soaked mattresses being reused or Sam’s ability to move around the jail to burn the mattress or that there is no lock down after there is a fire in a cell or that there is no yard or perimeter fence or security outside the building and MOST OF ALL that the IMPALA IS PARKED RIGHT OUTSIDE?! WHAT?! That is just idiotic. Why not at least make them crawl through a sewer and outside and end up in some swamp and THEN find the Impala, which Deacon might have hidden for them….SOMETHING!
All in all I was surprised at myself how this episode lost appeal to me and I would now only give it about 4 out of 10
Question: Wouldn’t an old jail building like the one in this episode have iron doors (especially in solitary), and probably iron bars? If so, a ghost should’ve had a harder time moving through the corridors at will. The writers implied that she escaped the older building when the iron door was opened and she was freed from that cell, so it makes me wonder how she was so mobile after being released. I’ve chosen to ignore the fact that the old cell walls were just cement (not salt-impregnated or anything like that), so that old cell shouldn’t have been able to keep her confined, anyway. I’ve also considered the possibility that the “new” part of the building could’ve had steel bars and doors. If so, it would’ve been nice if we’d been told that.
EXCELLENT question, Kate!!! I thought of that, too, when rewatching this time!! Never struck me before as odd but it did now.
I have no good answer for you. Bad writing?Funny enough THIS is only one of MANY things I found annoying in the episode this time around.
I completely agree with both of you.
Not a horrible episode for me, but not exactly interesting either.
The “controlling of supernatural elements” part of the story was noting really new but I did enjoy that it came from a writer here! As perceived criticism about loosing your creative agency when giving something that cost you time and heart blood up to be devoured by the many parts of the entertainment industry I found it effective. And that it’s basically self-inflicted hurt that will ultimately bite you in the ass, was the right conclusion to me.
The look behind the scenes was not insightful enough to really make an impression on me back on first watch because back then I had very little clue or info about how a TV set works. At the time I didn’t get many of the insider jokes and found it boring. And now that I feel I do know much more about it I think it’s not digging deep enough or critical enough to make it really sarcastically funny, like “French Mistake” seemed to be.
I liked the Dean parts the best – him geeking out on his favorite Horror actress and getting into his pretend job and everything to do with that.
I don’t have much more to say about that one.
PNP
I LOVE/HATE this one! It is one of my favorite episodes that season for sure AND one of the ones hardest to watch for me because it’s so sad.
I too LOVE Madison. I feel for her BUT I never pity her. I am not sure we are supposed to pity her either!
I admire her strength, independence, decisiveness and confidence. A person that takes being mugged and assaulted to mean that change in her life is necessary and that she won’t let the feat rule her, is admirable to me. She is not a victim character, not helpless and meek and in need of rescuing but also smart enough to know when she does need help. That is courageous to me.I also really enjoy that she isn’t intimidated by these two gorgeous guys but holds her own AND is pretty clear in her attention on and intention for Sam. HAHA. I didn’t mind that either! The “dump the lingerie drawer” scene makes me giggle every time. Is it very forward…YES….but I don’t think at that particular point it’s actually meant as a come on. I read it as trying to keep going with her life and a normal routine after something scared her and not letting the invasion of a “cop” into her house intimidate her. She offers Sam to sit on the couch to be comfortable, but also because she has stuff to do like folding laundry and catching up on her TV show. That’s it. Sam can sit where he likes while she’s doing it. I love that.
I found the chemistry between Sam and Madison so compelling and natural that it read as real to me (thanks to the actors, of course). There was some awkwardness, which is to be expected, of course, but also an immediate “sizing each other up” and finding each other interesting and a little judging. Sure, in real life none of that would work on fast track like this, but we are watching a fantasy series with limited time, so I can forgive that. I found this believable as a possible hook up for Sam, who prefers his ladies to have a little more to offer than a beautiful outside. And I can buy it as a casual hook up for her as well. All that worked for me. And the sex scene was beautifully shot, I thought, with lots of suggestive angles and glimpses of body parts and great lighting. It clearly conveyed to me that both liked their encounter to be a bit more “energetic” and “exhuberant” but it seemed well balanced between them.
What made Madison even more impressive is when she is tied to a chair, clearly terrified of the huge dude in her house who seemed to have lost his mind all of a sudden, but she tries to convince SAM that HE needs help. That is a great scene and very moving.
I also really liked Jared’s acting when he finds out that Madison is the werewolf. He has a great moment where his facial expression goes from regret for what could have been to cold business mode of not letting more people get hurt. It’s chilling and makes very clear how dangerous Sam can be if he chooses to be.
I enjoyed the case a lot, too. Love how excited Dean is when he deduces that they are hunting a werewolf. I appreciate that there were a few twists in the story. I don’t mind so much that werewolf lore changed over the years as it seems “realistic” to me that they learn new things about even established monster species. However, I do find it sad that in this instance here they feel like there is no other way out than to kill Madison when later they let werewolves live (AND they have let ‘vegetarian’ vampires live before this)!! I would rather trust Madison to figure out how to live with this than that girl from “Bitten” later….
I, too, find Dean’s consternation that Madison goes for Sam and not him funny. Love that he calls after the hooker he saves on the street “don’t mention it”.
And I LOVE that we see the first use of rock-paper-sissors in this episode, especially in the context of SAM standing up for something he wants and obviously thinking he has a better chance at beating Dean at this than arguing he way out. HA!
When it comes time to step up and be there, however, Dean has lots of great moments in this episode, too. After his initial “shock” that the girl wants Sam, he tries so hard to let Sam have some fun and teases him big brotherly about it. That is super cute to me. And when Sam runs to Dean after Madison turns the second time (by the way, WHY is Sam running to the motel and not calling Dean??) and Dean calmly takes charge and is the voice of reason going forward as hard as it is to see Sam and Madison go through their trauma. Dean’s the rock.
When it comes to the last few scenes my heart breaks for all the reasons you already mentioned and EVERY TIME I watch it. The desperation of Sam wanting to save Madison partially because he wants to believe that monsters CAN be saved and that there is a chance for himself as well is so palpable. The way Madison is begging for Sam to help her die and Dean’s enormous heart to step in and offer to do it gives me goosebumps. (And she is a VERY pretty crier!!) Sam’s sense of duty but also resignation in having to do what’s right and what Madison asked of him and (in my head at least) symbolically killing part of his own hope that he might be redeemable makes me cry alongside them. UGH. And that last moment in the kitchen, when Sam asks Dean to wait for him there, clearly appreciating Dean’s support and strength and Dean’s sadness over being unable to save Sam from this pain is SO RAW and REAL, it cracks my heart wide open.
So, yes, I hate that the Winchesters are in such pain and I hate that Madison can’t be saved BUT it’s so beautifully done and acted and written it still ranks really high for me. 8 out of 10
PNP
HAHA – FIRST I want to say HOW MUCH I LOVE coming to this page and reading two COMPLETELY different views from the two super knowledgeable SPN fans (and loved sisters) I most respect and admire!
ALL VIEWS are valid and important and interesting. I love that we are so varied.
PNP
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