PigNaPoke
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I agree with much you say, JBB.
Overall enjoyed it and the break from the Akrida story line and the episode as a whole but I also had several issues.
I DID enjoy Tom Welling as Samuel very much. To me his slightly out of touch gruffness in the beginning was fitting for that character to me. I loved how he waved John out of the chair he was sitting in, implying with one gesture that a young pup should respect his elders. And again when he corrected John, saying “Sam” to “SamUEL is fine” and squeezing his hand so hard that John cringed and shook it. Subtle signs of dominance, that were much like Mitch’s Samuel to me. I mean it’s HARD to compete with Mitch Pileggi, but I was not disappointed with Tom. I hope he’ll be back.
The conversations with Millie was great and felt real. The disdain for the “mole men” was funny, buried underground with their books. Knowing what Henry said to Sam and Dean about his preconceived notions about hunters, this was a great counterpoint. HA. And I did like a lot that Samuel softened later when he tried to explain himself in the end, before he left. It seemed genuine and believable to me. Like most hunter parents we met along the years, they TRY to keep the kids out or safe in an awkward way that never really works because most of the kids WANT to be in and help.
And THAT is one thing I did not enjoy….MARY….make your freaking mind up. If you are THAT set on being out (And I am just as sick to death as you are JBB of the constant, beating over the head mention of it!!!!) then ….don’t be all whiny and petulant about your dad trying to keep you out…. What sense does that make? And when she talked to Samuel at the end it seemed like now she wants to continue hunting. It just all seems immature flip flopping for me. There isn’t a real REASON for her to want out other than…she wants out and not live the life. But she has no issue running the show and bossing everyone around. So….make your mind up. UGH….the weird, uncomfortable kiss. SO out of place and again making Mary’s character look indecisive and unreliable. She JUST said she needs time…well, that was about 5 minutes….not enough time to feel realistic.
I REALLY enjoyed Carlos (and JoJo’s work) in this episode. Carlos seemed more balanced and a little more sincere or less comical, over the top (THAT was filled annoyingly by Loki AND RSJ). Aside from the singing, which was GORGEOUS and as you already said very unexpected (because I had not read any hype about it on line), Carlos also was more focused and operating on his own and I very much liked that.
I also LOVE the little moment at the beginning when John says he’ll stay behind with Mary and Samuel and Carlos stares at them both for a long moment and then says “I’ll allow it” HA.
I very much appreciate the deeper glimpse into Carlos’ past butting music career as well. It was the type of character story line I expected MUCH earlier in the season. It helps build a connection between audience and that character and make them 3D. I missed that so far. Now I got a sense of what he gave up for the hunting life, which in his case could have been fame and fortune with his voice… I do (like you) want to know the reason WHY he gave it up, though. Maybe we still get that later in the season?
I didn’t like that he so readily agreed to “the deal”. WHY? He didn’t even know the full scope of it and we had just gotten him to show that he was smart and more calculating like that. I never enjoy when action directs characters and not the other way around. (My main issue on Walker)
Lata continues to be too convenient and too sweet for me, too. You can be a pacifist and NOT be so cutsie. You can be strong and kind and just and find logical ways to deal with situations without violence. I don’t like when she’s cringing in the background of a fight making squeaky noises and looking outraged. It’s cliché and she’s better than that.
The fight scene against multiple Loki’s was kinda cool, though, because we hadn’t seen that before. I didn’t mind seeing everyone fight slightly differently.
LOKI…..well….I watched it again and I am STILL confused as hell. Was the entire episode written just so RJS could make a guest appearance?? Maybe. Funny or sad enough, there were plenty of things that I DID like the episode so the parts with Loki and RJS’ over-the-top, cringy, clowny performance did not ruin it for me. What happened?? RJS was so so good in SPN as Gabriel and Loki and the Trickster. Cheeky, yes, but also sarcastic enough to give it some edge and you could always feel that there was a somewhat dangerous layer to him. HERE….he was just annoying with the thousand finger snaps and the odd overacted lines.
And I do not get AT ALL what his character was after. Like you said, it felt like a demon deal to me, NOT like what we know Loki/the Trickster to enjoy doing to his victims. There weren’t any “just desserts”. The singers wanted success, I guess, but where is the teaching a lesson aspect? Demons just want to hurt people, but Loki was always more about giving bullies and assholes a kick in the pant. And was part of the “deal” with Loki that it had to be THAT song that had to be sung? Everyone hummed it and sang it who ended up dead or burned.
And even the curse itself was confusing. You get the tattoo and you need to sing TO a person to make them burn instead of yourself? I didn’t understand if that was just ONE time, like a payment for the singer’s upcoming success? Or once per performance forever? The whole thing was not well explained and therefore useless as story point.
I also have to say that I am not 100% in love with the music they chose for TW. Although 70’s it’s a bit too POP and less ROCK to me and it sometimes seems like a sad shadow of the OG show.
The concert was fun. Even if Louden Swain was sadly wasted as background décor. loved the little moment where Lata says she’s more of a metal head. HA, unexpected. The Jericho Kid’s voice wasn’t bad either earlier in the epidose.
LOVE your comments on the dark room. I was only thinking “Set Up the dark room? Odd.” Wouldn’t they have a fixed one on the basement or something? Thinking how they would need the ability to develop film with creepy things on it themselves.
OMGS! You hit it on the head with your observations about the Dean narration! HE WOULD NEVER SAY ANY OF THESE THINGS!!! The words are too stilted and weirdly “domesticated” and NOT Dean. And hearing Jensen’s Dean voice just makes me sad and miss Dean SOO freaking much. I hate to say it, but I really would prefer him NOT narrating TWs!!
Sooo many questions about Dean showing up in the photo at the end!!! Now that is intriguing and feels very SPN to me. WHY did Dean zap back to this time? And I even more so want to know from which point in the SPN story did he zap back and give John the letter? I know Robbie Thompson teased that he’ll explain all that in episode 13….I am very curious.
And fans raining hate on Jensen from keeping Sam out of that photo….sorry to say but….get over it! Jensen is NOT erasing Sam….he even said Jared would be a narrator at some point (if we get more episodes). I simply don’t get and don’t want to indulge or give footing to this odd division in the fandom that wants to see only one or the other side of Sam and Dean. To me they are ONE brotherly unit and there are no conspiracies to keep them apart or value one over the other….just…NO.
I normally LIKE the funny episodes…..BUT….this is definitely one of my least favorites. In fact, every time I watch it, I like it less.
It’s all a little too campy and the swapping body thing has been done and done better.
Like, how are the clothes magically adjusting to the VERY different body of Gary and Sam?
Why would Gary know to look into the glove compartment and find the other phones?
It takes Dean way too long to figure out that’s not Sam.
And Sam wouldn’t be SO rude to Gary’s family after he figured out that he’s in the wrong body.
It’s all a little too convenient to make sense or a good case.
The demons reaching out to witches to offer a reward was too far fetched to me.
I felt hit over the head with the whole “normal family life sucks” from Sam. I get that he changed his mind on the subject, didn’t need this episode to drill it in.
Maybe I’m just grumpy.
Yeah, there are funny moments. The scene in front of the mirror was well done.
My favorite element is Nora, the nerd turned demon, she is a great actress and to watch (I think she was on Buffy and I really enjoyed her there as well).
But overall….I give this a 4 out of 10….and that’s mostly because of Nora.
What WOULD have been funny is if Sam had a sore ass at the end sitting in the Impala because Crystal the dominatrix stripes his butt….hehe
The way the Winchesters scheme their way INTO the Psych ward is so funny to me.
What’s with the creepy CLOWN pics Martin is drawing? HAHA. I’m glad they didn’t kill Martin off right away. He is an interesting addition to the complex hunter world! SO MANY issues. Seeing someone who has actually given up hunting out of guilt and fear is something totally new here. And the actor is excellent.
Very well-written AND acted exchanges between Dean and the female doctor! Love the honesty from Dean. How at first it just seems like a safe bet that no one will believe him anyway and then he’s almost getting emotional about it when she asks just the right questions. And THEN to find out she isn’t even real?! Great surprise.
Good fight scenes between Sam and the orderlies! Sam does a lot of fighting and resisting in this episode.
LOVE the pudding scene, of course! “Crazy works!”
LOVE the scene between Dean and HIGH AS A KITE Sam!! It’s really cute and SO brotherly – heart-felt and truthful. And you can totally see the perfect mix of concern and annoyance in Dean’s face. HA
Overall this is another of those episodes that start with a lot of humor and turn SO dark when their “conscience” is starting to talk to Sam and Dean and we get a glimpse at their very real self-doubt and self-loathing! Really heavy and sad stuff but so excellently interwoven that it makes for great entertainment.
Seeing Dean so scared and confused is both funny as well as heart-breaking at first and then really freaking scary when he feels it’s out of control. Jensen is SO great!
Sam’s reaction to the doctor telling him that his uncontrolled violence is greatly concerning is sad to watch as well. Especially because it sticks with him after the effects of the wraith and the drugs wear off! He is so desperate there at the end when he tells Dean that he scares himself with his anger. It’s a VERY Sam and Dean moment. Sam wanting to talk, Dean needing to bury it.
I very much appreciate the twist that “poor, pathetic” Martin finds the courage and stands up to help. He ISN’T useless, he actually saves Sam from killing the doc, he helps Dean to focus and figure the case out, give him a chance to run, he very much is the hero here.
Kinda jarring that Sam and Dean totally ditch him and leave him in there to face all consequences alone! I always wondered if there was another scene maybe that didn’t make the final cut to explain that?
Another CONVENIENTLY parked Impala in the woods within easy running distance from the looney bin. HEHE.
It’s a very good episode.
Couldn’t agree with ALL you said more! So I won’t repeat any of it. What a masterful episode!!
A few additional thoughts:
I loved Crowley’s introduction. His snark, his confidence, his style, his pad. And they couldn’t have chosen better than Mark S.!!
Love that Crowley is watching horrible things like Hitler for entertainment!
Jo looked HOT in that little black number and played the damsel in distress perfectly before she totally kicks ass!
Crowley’s way to give Sam and Dean JUST enough info to be useful tools, but not enough to hurst him is so fun to watch.
And I love watching how even Dean’s legendary lack of reverence at strong supernatural beings fails him here just a little bit when meeting Crowley. HA!
LOVE LOVE LOVE the scenes at Bobby’s house!!! And our recreation of that final photo is sitting on my night stand and gives me so much joy every day!!! Making it AND seeing it! Thank you for all involved!
And I have a TON of respect for the writers that they NEVER made Dean and Jo into anything more than a fun flirt and a crash and burn for Dean. Amazing how Jo teases Dean and THEN shoots him down! All that made the final kiss THAT much more emotionally valid and important!
GREAT pan shot from behind Cas making an empty street into a Reaper filled one.
Mark P.’s early portrayal of Lucifer’s utter contempt for human kind is chilling.
There are SO MANY important players in this episode it’s astounding.
I remember being SHOCKED that Ellen and Jo both died in this episode. They had so much more story in them. Yes, their deads made a deep impact on Sam and Dean, but I still think that killing them wasn’t necessary to drive the story forward. What a sad waste, as amazingly touching and impactful as those scenes were. It really felt like mother/daughter energy for me. It is so HARD to watch!
GREAT make up on Jo, making her all grey and looking like she lost a lot of blood.
Dean reaching out to Bobby and his relief at hearing his voice and looking for reassurance is a GREAT scene. All of the characters seem so incredibly real in these scenes.
There is NOTHING more scary than seeing your one and only chance fail. And you can see that on the guys’ faces. Especially after what they just lost. That was a shocker.
I also LOVE that after the initial shock wears off – or at least Sam believes he is not in immediate danger – he goes straight back into research mode and asks Lucifer some questions. That is brave, too.
Pretty ruthless of Cas to use Meg as a bridge over the Holy Fire. HA!
Bobby shouldn’t have burned the photo at the end, but I get that it stood in for a hunter’s funeral they weren’t able to have for Jo and Ellen! And I love that no words were spoken in the last scene!
Gods, I love this one SO MUCH. Just the idea to go so meta and bring in fan conventions into the actual show was brilliant.
Straight from the start when they park the Impala next to….more Impalas.
Dean’s disgust and astonishment at the entire idea of a SPN con is hilarious.
All the bad costumes and corny merch and themed drinks….YUP, totally happening. It’s a shame that they weren’t able to include a Castiel costume contest, because he wasn’t yet in any of the books. THAT would have been perfect.
And in return the incredulity of Barnes and Damien when they see ghosts are real and the Salt-n-Burn actually works is priceless.
I do like that Chuck tries to stand up to the Winchesters about not having any other skills and needing to publish more books. And Rob KILLED it at the neverending Q&A panel! HAHAHA – it was so painfully awkward.
It’s also a real accomplishment that the episode still manages to have a real creepy case and even a nice twist on who the bad guy is amongst all the chaos of the con.
And making the FANS save the day by salting and burning the kids’ bones was awesome. To me that was a nice nod of the head from the writers to the fans acknowledging that WE keep Sam and Dean (aka the show) alive!! And as unrealistic and fictional as it all is, I would hope that SOME real fans would be brave enough to jump into action when we finally find out that it IS all real and the world is in peril. LOL
I always applauded the choice the writers made to focus on a pair of gay partners RPG’ing Sam and Dean and the particular actors who were cast. They were a joy to watch. Not sure if the writers meant to poke fun at the mountain of slash fan fic out there at that point but I liked it.
LOVE the difference in how Sam and Dean are dealing with the RPG crowd. Dean just want to punch them all in the face for quoting his own lines and Sam trying to cooperate to get somewhere quicker in the investigation. And even Sam playing along with Becky’s good bye speech was sweet.
Underneath all the fun and obvious jokes, though, we still get a real emotional sense on how hard it is for Dean to see his life “played with” and his choices and decisions to be rolled out in front of his eyes. He likes to bury things…being made to look at it again must be extra painful for him. Especially such scene as the Asylum conversation.
But that whole situation really grounds the episode and makes it emotional and relatable. When the two RPG guys in the end tell Dean that he’s wrong and how much Sam and Dean mean to them and inspire them….that was beautiful and speaking straight for all of us fans!
I am glad they only gave us a little hint at Dean being taken aback to find out Barnes and Damien are gay. He made condescending remarks about “nice to get out of your parents basement and make some friends” but I’m glad they left it at “OH” and “Howdy partners” for the rest!
A ton of fun AND heart!
And the final twist with Becky knowing about Bela, Crowley and the Colt!! WOW. I always wondered what else Sam and Dean could have learned from reading the books that they didn’t already know.
Ask the fans!! They know more about your story than you do. HEHE. YUP, we do!
Yeah, this one, especially after the AMAZING “The End” was pretty much a throwaway episode to me.
I do appreciate that Dean and Sam take time to grow back together, but it was a little heavy handed in this episode. I get that Dean needs time to trust Sam again, but this seemed to go a little far at times.
I also didn’t really like the message of worshipping the “wrong idols”. I mean, here we are FANS of this show and definitely worshipping all to do with it….are WE going to be eaten by a monster for it?
And the idea of old world gods who are taking their own dues because they are no longer fed by the adoration of their followers was also not new in SPN….HELLO, CHRISTMAS EPISODE.
Paris Hilton….what odd choice! I was never a fan of hers or understood why one would be….but I do have a little more respect for her now hearing about her absolutely horrendous adolescence.
Anyhow…the supposed humor in this one fell flat for me, too.
And Sam digging into the corpse randomly and coming up with the seeds was just silly.
And NOONE is unconscious and standing up like that when tied to a tree.
Well, the episodes can’t all be winners.
The only decent scenes to me where the Sam and Dean talks about making some changes. Sam taking full responsibility, but also asking for leeway to grow up. They were heartfelt and real feeling conversations.
That’s all I have to say about that. 🙂
PNP
I cannot sing praises any louder than you, two, already have! I agree with EVERYTHING you both said!
One of the top 5 best EVER episodes for me, too.
There isn’t a minute in this one that DOESN’T work.
VERY GOOD Question, Kate, about if any of this was real or not or an alternate universe. Any of that could be the truth.
EXCELLENT point, JBB, about the flip phone being so much more effective to “slam”. HA!
Jensen is giving a freaking MASTERCLASS in acting in this episode! There is no question about that. The range of emotions he has to go through from BOTH Dean’s is off the chart and it’s no wonder he was exhausted by the end of it.
I also agree with both of you that Jensen is overall the better actor (by a good clip) of the two but Jared is holding his own very nicely throughout the series and shines on many occasions very brightly, too. I don’t want to take credit from him but I do think that Jared acting with and opposite Jensen makes his performances better! That HAS to be it, because I honestly fail to see how he can be very good in this show and makes such utterly bad or at least questionable acting choices at the moment on Walker!!!!
UGH, you can see it’s KILLING Dean to say to Sam that they need to stay apart to dodge Michael and Lucifer. Having this scene on the heels of Dean telling Cas that he’s happier without Sam, makes me even more convinced that Dean doesn’t WANT to be apart from Sam, but that it was a necessary break and now it’s the smart choice for the time being.
It’s so interesting to me how I feel about the two Deans in this episode! Because they really aren’t the same person. At the beginning of the episode I feel squarely in 2009-Dean’s corner. Discovering his future self and how far that Dean has been gone past anything Past-Dean can imagine himself do is so shocking, you can see him shaken to his core and I feel for him deeply. I want to shake Future-Dean by the collar and snap him out of it. But when Future-Dean tells the other about Sam having said yes and he’s begging him to make other choices and say yes to Michael, I understand him, his choices, his closed off demeanor. And I want Past-Dean to listen. Just for a moment. Future Dean is SO DEEPLY desperate, still caring for the planet’s population, trying to save what he can. It’s heartbreaking. Then he suddenly gives up and stops trying to convince his counterpart because he does know that it’s pointless. (ABSOLUTELY STELLAR SCENE by the way! The writing and the execution are just out of this world!!) Then once you realize Future-Dean uses his team pretty much as canon fodder, I am again completely on 2009-Dean’s side with the outrage and disbelief, horrified that Dean’s been pushed past where loss of close allies even registers as wrong. What a rollercoaster ride.
Hippie-Cas is a DELIGHT but it’s also oddly sad to see him that way, feeling useless and hopeless, trying to numb the paid, basically. Misha must have had a blast playing him.
I do think Jared is doing a very good job NOT being Sam when he’s playing Lucifer. The confrontation between Dean and Lucifer is chilling for sure. Lucifer’s condescending manner is creepy and infuriating. Dean’s bravado to sass at the devil is impressive and even more impressive is Jensen’s way to make Dean look both cocky and terrified all at the same time. GREAT scene all around. ONE criticism I do have is that I never liked the white suit look!! I know Lucifer is the Lightbringer etc. etc. but it’s too on the nose for me the stick him into a white shiny suit. And a cheap looking one at that.
Seeing Dean UTTERLY alone at the end of this conversation is also truly disturbing!!! The idea that he might end up RIGHT THERE in five years with all of his allies dead and his brother being the sock puppet for the devil must be crushing and we can see that in his expression. UGH.
LOVE the “ghost of Christmas screw you” line!!!
I also agree with Dean’s words of “Don’t ever change” to Cas! Unfortunately the writers had other plans.
I LOOOOVE most of all that Dean in the end does the ONE thing he CAN control in this whole mess! Get Sam back by his side. Cause if THAT was the beginning of the end, that they didn’t talk for five years…..well, then, THAT Dean can fix.
I really think the tentative nature of their reunion is the perfect way to bring them back together here. They are not ok….not yet and not fully, but they haven’t given up trying either and that is so realistic to me, it makes it most believable. And I very much appreciate that Sam is truly thankful for being let back in, because he knew it was not a given.
And to me the very end of the episode with Dean saying “We make our own future”, effectively saying that they HAVE a choice to change , and Sam saying “Guess, we have no choice”, to me implying that their hand was forced, is GENIUS writing!!!
Mindboggling how TV can be THIS good!!! GLAD to have it recorded for the ages and being able to go back to it regularly. JUST AMAZING!
I remember thinking the first time I watched this episode that Jessica must be Sam’s conscious talking to him and I felt so bad for him. Having the person you loved and still miss a lot really playing on your guilt and fear of your own darker nature and casually accusing you of getting her killed is brutal. I thought Jared played the mix of believing her words and still hoping to escape what he fears is his fate really well.
And at the very end when we find out it’s been Lucifer all along….that was a nice unexpected twist of the knife in the gut. When Sam still thinks it’s Jess, he looks so longing, it’s sweet! And I do like that he is MORE convinced that he CAN change and redeem himself than at the beginning of the episode.
PERFECT montage at the beginning to Simple Man. I agree with you both! The editing is SUPERB!
(LOVE SAM in the light gray v-necked tshirt!!)
I MISS awkward Cas!! He was SOOOO much more fun to watch at the beginning. He really got too human and soft for me in the later seasons. Here he is perfectly puzzled by humanity and still a little scary in his quiet power. And his slightly stiff manner and stilted choice of words was also perfect. And his lack of pop culture knowledge was endearing and funny. SIGH. I mean lines like “Where have you been?” “Jerusalem” “Oh, how was it?” “Arrid” – come on….it’s GOLD!
Dean and Cas working a case together was quite entertaining. I loved the whole talk to the Deputy at the police station!
Lindsey IS ANNOYING. I have nothing against a strong female who knows what she wants and goes for the guy, but the way they wrote her was too college student flirty and nosy. She didn’t fit the pattern of other girls Sam was interested in so far and I didn’t see him responding to her with anything but friendly indifference. She’s way too pushy, kinda demands personal info about Sam she has no right, too, even when he CLEARLY wants to keep to himself…. All that made even the better scene with her telling Sam about her sober journey kinda flat for me. However, I do appreciate that she stayed pretty calm and collected amidst the fight with the other hunters! I am glad she wasn’t made into a screeching damsel in distress.
I always thought, although funny, that the brothel scene was a bit of a stretch. Nice that Dean wants to get Cas a fun experience, but I don’t see Dean actually frequenting a brothel himself. He doesn’t have to!! Dean fucking Winchester doesn’t PAY for sex. However, I DO like that nothing actually happens and the girl who takes Cas with her actually kicks him out. HEHE.
Raphael is very intimidating! Another QUIET presence that radiates power and an utter disregard for humanity it seems. I actually love the fact that angels we see caught in a burning ring of holy oil DON’T freak out or look around in a panic, because they KNOW it’s pointless and it shows how unconcerned with time they are. They can wait there, for help or whatever else might happen to disrupt the fire. Even if they have to wait til the floor crumbles from age….they have time. HA.
I LOOOOVE when Dean gets righteously PISSED at beings so much more powerful than he is and who he knows could kill him in an instant because these beings act carelessly about the earth and the people on it!!!! Dean CARES, so much, about everyone else but himself, and these moments always remind us of that core value he carries all the time. It is AWESOME to watch Dean talking to Raphael and heartbreaking at the same time. (And Jensen is a master at bringing this to life). And I love seeing some of that rub off on Cas.
DID Lucifer bring Cas back???
I’m not a big fan of the whole fight with the returning hunters. How would they have gotten the idea that Sam would “hulk out” after drinking demon blood? From the demon the caught and tortured? Why would that demon say that? The whole thing always seems to me like a labored plot point of trying to show us that NOW Sam can withstand temptation of the blood. And even that really doesn’t work for me as he didn’t really make a choice. They forced the blood into his mouth and he spit some of it back out. OK. But that doesn’t read like an active turning away from it to me. And I didn’t believe for a minute that Sam would have actually killed the other hunters. So it didn’t work for me either that he looked at Lindsey and then lets the hunter go. Anyhow…didn’t like that scene much.
I know that Dean says he’s happier without Sam at the end, but I don’t buy it. He has less of a burden worrying about Sam all the time, that is true, but I understood that to not just mean the past fall out over the demon blood, Ruby and the Apocalypse, I think he meant it’s a relieve not having to worry about Sam at all for a bit because he’s been looking out for him his whole life. And this separation was one they BOTH wanted and felt was best. So there isn’t guilt on Dean’s part for leaving Sam OR anger about Sam leaving him. It’s just a break in a way they haven’t had. And having a little break every once in a while is good for ANY partnership.
Mark Pellegrino was SO GOOD as Lucifer in the beginning!!! Again, with the quiet, gentle, calm from a powerful angel!! It makes him SO scary because you can understand why people would give in to his argumentation.
I also think Jared is fantastic in this scene. Sam looks completely shocked to find out that he is Lucifer’s vessel! Shocked and dismayed. When he just was convinced that he had a chance to change and not give in to whatever darkness he carries, now he finds out that he was supposed to be cast as the major bad in the apocalypse? It’s devastating. And you can feel all that from Jared’s performance.
GOOD episode! Season 5 got real intense real quick!
It’s probably my overall mood or stress level, but I was supremely ANNOYED by this episode!!!
There is SO MUCH potential, there are some REALLY nice moments, BUT the full package seemed SO labored.
I had a really hard time hanging on to the GOOD parts to overlook the irritating parts and I kinda failed tonight.
Let me try to stick with the things I actually liked first:
The “two dads save the day” idea was really nice!
Having Henry make an appearance was great and I like the way they did NOT talk about why Henry left for time purposes and Henry had some useful info to contribute. Bringing in the music box from the original SPN was a nice touch. I also loved that scene where Henry tells John he’s proud of him. Seeing Gil was wonderful. Drake did a very good job in the emotional scenes leading up to Henry apprearing and when they spoke to each other. The mix of incredulity and appreciation for getting to hear praise from his dad was heartfelt. (Of course, then I think about how we know from the original SPN that John never found out about any of this…)
I liked the involvement of Millie in translating the “code” and the moments between Millie and Ada. The two mature women talking about the issues with the younger hunters was fun and SO RELATABLE!!!
I also liked finding out yet a little more about Carlos, his love for music and about what got him into hunting, even though the whole thing got pretty much lost in this episode. Another short but nice moment was where he was lamenting that the gang might break up after finding Mary’s dad. JoJo seemed natural and sincere and believable, not flippant of comedic. It was refreshing. And I love his hair. LOL.
I did like that Samuel showed up and was competent with the box to suck up the monster-crabs. I love Tom Welling and am excited to have another older character be part of this. I hope they give him something to DO.
The actress playing Roxy is fun to watch!!
RSJ did add some interesting camera work and the overall pacing was good in this episode.
But I don’t want to have THAT be the most notable thing in the episode!!! I want to be CAPTURED by the story and the character’s hardship or triumph. And none of our core gang did much to that effect this episode.
SIGH!!
Now to the stupid:
Right out of the gate I was annoyed. I know they were trying to launch straight into the action but giving us exposition of what John and Mary were doing at the radio tower WHILE “sneaking up” on it and talking on big bulky walkie-talkies was just DUMB.
I am starting to lose hope that Mary has another level of emotion besides rushed, gruff, barking orders and acting rashly. She just doesn’t come across as smart and that really starts to bug me. She is NOTHING like Dean as much as they want us to see parallels. Her blank face, stiff manner and constant rushing into things and demanding answers that are not there is getting on my last nerve. Every time the gang tries to research she just wants to rush into action without the proper tools. It IS partially that Meg doesn’t convince me that there is more to Mary or that she can play that, but it is also how the writers chose to present her that doesn’t help at all to make her more likable or at least make me want to care for her struggle.
And boy oh boy do they like to state the obvious on this show!! The dialogue often states blunt facts from before the last commercial break or the last episode or filler info that is totally superfluous if one paid a modicum of attention while watching the last episode. It’s almost as if they are trying to fill in a new audience every single week. Totally annoying.
As much as I did like the moments I mentioned above, the ways they tried to get to these moments seemed mostly silly. Like to need Henry to appear via séance because no one could read his shorthand/code? Dumb.
Why were they all SO amazed that the candles blew out during the séance? Nothing extraordinary happened. Seemed overdone and odd.
Mary keeps grunting and screaming in every fight scene like one of those female tennis players who get on my nerves.
Having John and Mary trap themselves in the warehouse and conveniently drop the box to make room Samuel to come into play and save the day? Dumb.
I got ZERO chemistry from the moment before or during the John and Mary kiss. Z.E.R.O. (So sad)
The Akrida Monster story is also starting to lose me. I was interested in the Roxy character and what she meant to the whole arc but now it seems that she’s just a grunt, too, AND gone? And there is a queen? And a bunch of possessed humans are digging zombie like some weird portal out of a tunnel in a sugar cane field???? DUMB. UGH.
Drake is doing a fine job as all along and he had some nice moments here again, but it’s like he’s acting in a vacuum most the time and that makes the whole things kinda hollow.
Lata was mostly useless in this episode – or better she was used as bland background character or researcher.
I am NOT a fan of them peppering in music we know or have an attachment to from SPN! The “Americana” theme is Sam and Dean for me….not overall Winchester Family. I cringed every time it came up in this episode.
I really HATED the use of “Can’t find my way home” here either. It’s been used SO effectively on SPN in some pivotal moments, but here it seemed a cheap throwaway “easter egg” I didn’t want.
PNP
I enjoyed the addition of two older hunters and that they were both female. Of course, one didn’t make it long, but I appreciate the effort. LOL
“Aunt” Tracy felt real to me in her no-nonsense attitude to live and hunting. The actress found a good way to portray the fine line between being hardened by a hunter’s life and still emotional enough to seem shaken up by the loss of her friend and remorseful about her past mistakes. I very much liked her as a character.
I can also understand why she would be a great inspiration to Mary for starting to think that “getting out” is an option for her. Tracy did it and had at least a good long while success at it. (Well, until we find out she has a DARK past and reason to get out, but ok, who doesn’t have some skeletons in their closet in this universe?)
I agree, JBB, that so far in the series they talked about Mary wanting to leave the life too much, but in this episode and against this particular circumstance, I actually didn’t mind or even enjoyed it.
I, too, thought that the BUCKET of blood at the beginning was very odd and not SPN “real”. HAHA. RSJ should know better. Unless they were referencing some specific thing I am unaware of.
To me it was way better this time how they had to piece together the evidence. It wasn’t Lata for once who immediately knew it all. She just “knew a guy” who then helped and even THAT led them only part of the way. I thought Lata’s mentioning of a specific “monster identifying” book that was left behind in the club house was ridiculous, though!!! WAY too Harry Potter for me.
The hunter’s funeral was done REALLY well and tastefully filmed, I thought, as we’ve never seen the prep of a body before in any SPN episode. Here it conveyed a somber respect and reverence for the fallen comrade in the care they took to prepare and wrap her. I agree, JBB, that the flopping hand was a very nice and realistic touch here as well.
It, of course, reminded me as well of Dean’s funeral pyre, and mostly made me very sad as to what Sam had to go through to prepare Dean for it. But even with that grim thought, I liked the fresh look at it in this episode here a lot.
I also thought Carlos had good moments. I really like his more serious side, like when he’s trying to convince John to go to therapy with him, and his sly remarks without being too silly. However, the whole flustered thing over the hunky taxidermist, Anton, was annoying to me. I just didn’t buy that confident, flirty, Harlequin-romance-novel-adoring Carlos would get THIS bend out of shape this quickly. It felt overdone and silly to me and went on too long.
I don’t mind the Soucouyant witch-pire baddy this week. YES, it was a little weird about Barbados for the reasons you mentioned, JBB, but I heard about Soucouyant stories in New Orleans (due to the Carribbean influences there) and maybe they just didn’t want to base another story there so soon?
I very much agree with you, though, that fighting monster witches in bright sunlight is NOT scary and really not giving me SPN vibes! I want creepy, nighttime hunts and shadowy locations to explore.
I did enjoy Anton and Lata digging into the witch’s arm with glee, but I do think overall that the young hunter’s are a bit too nonchalant around gore, too.
NICE twist with the monster being possessed by Mac’s vengeful spirit that then jumped into John. I didn’t see that coming and it was a good story point (plus Drake did a good job at playing it). I just thought the exposition about Mac as a bit labored and long. And the parallel about the “dark soul” hunter to what John might become was too heavy-handed.
To me Meg did a better job in this episode giving me a little more emotion from Mary. Like in the scene with John after he got injured by the Soucouyant. Maybe she was just playing off of Drake here, who I thought nailed that scene and John’s conflicting emotions, but as a whole I felt more from Mary giving him crap about his motives. And the last scene with John was warmer and more believable to me as well. (And I say it again, maybe Meg’s portrayal of Mary isn’t bothering me as much because I never expected that much open emotion from Mary to begin with because I never felt that from Sam Smith either. LOL)
Of course, it was idiotic and very “Winchester” of John to do exactly what Mary accused him of being his weak point. But I can see that as a character trait of his, the running into danger without much considering his own risk, because we know that so well from his sons.
I’m sure everyone involved was very proud of the fight scene in the barn….I think they need some more practice to make it look better. It seemed pretty amateurish to me. Tracy should have at least TRIED to fight back when Mac/John has her in a choke hold. Carlos was out too quickly – no doubt to even the odds. Mary does not look like an experienced fighter, she fell down too much. LOL. But I don’t fault them for lack of experience here. Maybe if they had made Mac/John look MORE powerful it might have balanced out? But I appreciate them trying to include an epic fight scene. Those will get better with time.
I loved that Lata saved the day with HER special gift of empathy. THAT was a nice touch and I’m really glad we learned so much more about her past and motivations. She gained nice depth for me this episode and made me believe that her constantly sunny attitude we’ve seen so far is really just put on to hide her doubts about being a liability and torn between two worlds, like she says to Carlos in the van. So, it was lovely to see her actually being the ONE who was best suited to solve the issue in the end and get through to Mac and convince him to let go and break the cycle.
I’m a little surprise that Tracy lived, but I’m pleased by it! YES, she fucked up in her earlier hunter’s live, but I’m glad she has a chance for redemption and was just discarded!!
I very much agree with you, JBB, on the point that I want to see more “real life” friction for the characters as well. You make an excellent point how they currently kinda float through their surroundings in a bubble without much real interaction or conflict with the world. I get that the world wasn’t as connected back then in the big picture (like law enforcement catching on to some of their minor crimes like B&E) but there should be some of the strive that comes from living in a smallish town in Kansas and their unconventional way to live and “work”. I am sure there are plenty of opinions circulating at the diner and the supermarket and the church….etc….I would love to see some of the character’s interactions in a real way with that part of life.
Still, overall it was one of the strongest episodes so far to me, because there was real character development, an interesting case and a widening of the season story arc.
I really liked this case and the deeper look into Mary’s past and Ada’s past.
I just don’t like the easy way that solutions always present themselves to the gang! THAT fact alone takes me out of their struggle as hunters. I want a montage of them looking for information for a few days and gathering clues, running into dead ends, having to pivot and try again! Even Sam and Dean had to do that and THEY had technology on their side. I don’t want Latha or Ada to always know everything. It’s too easy.
OK, and I DON’T like the bug monsters!! They are kinda stupid and alien and not scary! But at least we now know that these are NOT the actual AKRIDA, but only foot soldiers, and “the Akrida” seems to be the local DJ Roxanne? Looked like her rings on the lady’s fingers who collected the essence of the Tree Witch monster from the cemetery in epsiode 2?!
I DID like a lot that here we meet a gin (or two, if you count Ali’s attempt) who actually want to use their abilities to HELP people !! That was refreshing and new and totally within the realm of possibility with what we knew of gin before.
Ada’s pain of having failed her son was also well done and relatable and a echo of the issues that Sam and Dean had at the beginning of navigating the sea of grey that is hunting.
I liked Tony and the actor did a fine job of relating the issues Tony had with feeling abandoned and alone in the world. AND the moment with Latha was cute when he asks if he can write to her! HA.
I liked to find out that Mary’s deepest trauma was that her parents told her the truth at five years old and she feels like it stole her future.
I found it interesting how Mary’s issues with her parents being TOO truthful and Tony’s issues with Ada not being truthful enough both result in the same – resentment over the parents and the seeking of their own paths.
I liked John stepping up and helping Mary to face her dreaded memories without it feeling romantic (yet).
I also liked finding out that Millie gave Henry a bike! Somehow that is really cool to me. And that John and Mary both know their way around an engine was also a nice touch! I wish my parents every had or would have taught me practical knowledge like that…lol…instead I got music education and TONS of history and lore and legends. HEHE. I just didn’t get the scene where John tells Mary she can have the bike when they are done fixing it so she can get a fresh start….she already HAS a car….HE needs a ride at the moment! And Mary accepts it as if it’s NO bid deal?
A few really ODD moments for me were that we find out the club house has a medical lab or autopsy room or whatever without anyone really mentioning it or talking about it!!
And Latha saying “Mary’s bonds are ok for now but they won’t hold forever” was totally idiotic!! So….TIGHTEN THEM….duh!
But overall, I enjoyed this one a lot!
There are a lot of good parts in this episode but as a whole it never managed to feel like one of my favorites. I think it’s because the whole ruse WAR puts on with who is or isn’t a demon goes on a little too long or I whish there was some other part to the story. Or maybe the episode really mostly lives in the surprise of what really is going on that simply doesn’t work on third, fourth or tenth watch anymore?
Anyhow I DO enjoy watching the characters interact and love how this season right away kicks into high gear with the Big Bads and introduces the Four Horsemen here! The choice of the horsemen’s “rides” is also really fun.
Seeing Cas so intense at the beginning – wanting to look for God, revealing the truth about the amulet, telling Dean he’ll better support his (Cas’) plan because he gave up everything for him – really drives the point home how urgent and big this situation is.
And I find it touching that even though Dean really doesn’t know where he stands with Sam at the moment he doesn’t want to let go of the amulet and what it means to him!
THE BRIDGE from the finale!!! Seeing it now brings up so many feelings…..but it is a gorgeous location. I wonder how the special effect with the gap was created.
It’s great to have Ellen, Jo and Rufus back and all in one episode.
Ellen’s tough love is very refreshing. Giving both Sam and Dean a piece of her mind about cutting her out. HA. And later telling Dean to suck it up and work on the problem with what he’s got….HER…and not wish for Sam or Bobby.
I love the fact that BOTH Sam and Dean figure out what’s going on separately from each other, showing that they are perfectly equal in wits.
And how poignant nowadays how War says here that people don’t really need a reason to kill each other!! More true than EVER. SIGH.
It’s a very good follow up story for the hard trust conversation we had at the end of the last episode! We see the tension keep building here and think it’s real how Sam and Dean drift further apart just to then find out much of that was probably caused by War’s influence on the town. Then you relax and hope that they actually see that and make a new try at reconciliation just to have another twist with the brothers deciding to split up completely at the end. UGH! For Sam and Dean to NOT put each other before everything else and stick together is so hard to accept but an excellent painful story point and from that angle I love that the show allowed time for the deep hurt to scab over enough for them to go forward together again. Both Jared and Jensen are doing amazing work in that scene making us hang on every word and really feeling for both brothers. You can tell how Sam is still hoping for Dean to try and talk him out of leaving and you can see how it pains Dean not to be able to bring himself to do just that. It’s still as hard to take as ever.
The ONE thing I don’t like about this episode’s storyline is the confusion over IF or IF NOT Sam was actually cured of the addiction to the demon blood or the power that it gives him. We are made to believe that Sam isn’t jonesing for a hit but then War says its “all blood all the time” in Sam’s head. So was Sam lying to Dean at the beginning? Or was War just influencing him to believe he still wants it? Shouldn’t God’s cure be stronger than War’s manipulations? And in the end the blood wasn’t even demon blood anyway, so why would that cause Sam to slide back. That part made me believe it was War’s meddling that made Sam think he wants it, but that should have lifted when War was taken off line. Maybe he wasn’t addicted to it at all ever and it was always only about the power? But at the end Sam says that he doesn’t trust himself and that the blood was a temptation…
It just throws too many things out of whack and into suspicion that we barely understood to begin with. And then it never gets really cleared up or explained.
What GREAT Season Premier! SO much new info, twists and turns, a few funny bits, exciting fight scenes, awesome one liners and real tough truths. It is so packed with action and story it feels much longer than the 42 minutes, in a good way.
Few questions that popped into my brain this time around:
– Sam and Dean get whisked away from the convent when Lucifer is already rising and the bright column of light is in full swing but they are put on the plane (by God?) seemingly BEFORE that actually happens. Then they see the column of light exploding and the plane apparently goes down? A little bad planning by God, don’t you think? LOL
– Dean says when he uses the Angel banishing sigil that it’s something Cas taught them but wasn’t it Ana who introduces the method to them?
– Meg smokes out of her meatsuit after the fight in the hotel. How does she use the same meatsuit in later episodes?
– What happened to the all demon meatsuits in the storage unit? Did Sam and Dean dispose of them?I love Dean’s defiance all through out and his sarcastic come backs but it is also very clear that it’s his usual way of not dealing at all with his actual feelings and simply deflecting it all until he absolutely can’t anymore. That makes the conversation at the end of the episode SO impactful. You don’t see it coming. You expect Dean to keep suppressing it and move on, happy to have Sam back at all. But then to hear from him HOW DEEPLY hurt and disappointed he actually was and that he doesn’t feel he can trust Sam anymore, slices both Sam and the audience to the bone. It’s so heartbreaking on BOTH their parts. And we know that the words stick with Sam throughout the years, judging by his despair in the season 8 finale where he worries about letting Dean down yet again. To me this is one of THE toughest but also most honest conversations they have in 15 seasons.
And as hard as it is to watch Sam NEEDED to be told this! Not just by Dean, but also by Demon-Bobby. Even if Bobby says later it was the demon talking and he didn’t mean it I think SAM HEARD and took the criticism to heart about not listening, being arrogant and behaving stupidly while under Ruby’s influence.
It was a really nice story twist to make Bobby of all people be so harsh to Sam at the beginning when Sam tries to explain himself and apologize!! I remember thinking from the start that something was odd there because it was also Bobby who had admonished Dean for giving up on Sam at the end of Season 4!! But it was still a shock seeing Bobby’s eyes turn black.
The scenes with Nick are all nicely creepy and paint a good picture of why he would be susceptible to Lucifer’s gentle persuasion.
I always thought it was a very interesting choice to show how cruel and conniving Zachariah is in his attempt to get his way with Dean and how on the opposite side Lucifer is kind and honest to finagle his way into Nick!! (Also Kurt Fuller just ROCKS this role and is so wonderful to watch in it!!)
I was glad to see some real imposing presence from Cas here. He is decisive and a little scary and kicks some ass (BRAVO for some good editing making Misha look very capable as a fighter! LOL).
Poor Sam gets hit in the head a lot in this episode, first with a toilet plunger by Chuck and then with a telephone by Meg, plus kicked in the jewels! OUCH! But there are a lot of great fight scenes in this episode.
I remember when first watching it that I hated Becky’s character because she was so clearly meant to represent the fandom and in SUCH awfully cringy way. I felt made fun off and discounted and insulted because in my limited experience then I thought this is NOT how fans are!!! WELL….NOW I find her much funnier. I don’t feel represented by her anymore and therefor not attacked, BUT I also know that fans like her DO exist and that there unfortunately is a cringeworthy part of the fandom. And that has nothing to do with fan fiction or anything else people like to express themselves through, but only with the way some fans choose to behave withing the fandom community and go about communicating through social media to and about the actors etc. I can watch it from afar and find some of it funny and some of it horrendous, but I don’t feel part of THAT section of our fandom. Therefore now, I can fully enjoy Becky’s excitement about meeting her idol (Chuck) and then her fantasy (Sam) and her comments about it all.
This episode hits a 9 out of 10 for me. One point deduction just because I hate seeing the boys at odds.
Hi JBB,
I totally agree with you on Latha!! I am very disappointed with her character. I love the diversity as well, but I need that also to STAND for something. I don’t want nerdy-smart Indian book girl! I want more grit and less Disney-ish delivery of everything she says. She’s like a ray of sunshine that breaks through the curtains and doesn’t let you sleep – warm, bright and annoying.
Maybe it gets better if we get more of her back story, but at the moment she sticks out and not in a good way. She’s pretty unnecessary on the road, too. She would be more believable if she stayed behind and support them from her library job and MoL club house.
I want to like her, but there has to be more there.
I keep thinking of Charlie on SPN. She was cute, bubbly, innocent, nerdy, smart, clumsy – pretty much all the things Latha displays – BUT you could tell immediately that there was more to her story and she is brave, which I haven’t seen from Latha yet.
Of all characters, she leaves me the coldest.
I don’t have a problem with believing Mary’s trauma over the loss of Maggie. I can understand her sadness over losing a sister of sorts. Aside from that it seems to me that Maggie’s death at such young age gives Mary some anxiety over the ticking timer on her own chance to get out AND at the same time Maggie’s death gives Mary the impression that she won’t make it out of the life at all. Locking all that away by not going into the room seems realistic to me.
Does Millie maybe know more about Henry’s MoL activity and is not AS disbelieving of the supernatural as a complete innocent would be? And if it’s not that….maybe it’s just in the Winchester family to be totally ready to roll with the supernatural punches? John did the same thing. LOL
PNP
Hi Y’all,
forgive me if some of the following thoughts are repeats of yours, but I am posting without reading first:
I did like the sparring sequence at the very beginning. Good choreography and it looked real to me. I also liked the glimpse at how Mary sees that something’s bothering John but instead of talking she offers a REAL sparring match to get it out of his system. Very “Winchester” of her. I wondered for a moment if John would go all out on her and how she would be fairing. I liked the little twist that even though she offered herself as a punching bag she ends up showing him he’s fighting too fairly or squarely.
I’m warming up to Mary a little more. She’s less wooden and I can see that she is trying to be less bossy with the gang. Her scenes with Latha going through Maggie’s things were very nice and I loved the little ritual they picked up from Maggie with the post cards stating some GOOD things that happened during the hunt! I like that we can see Mary constantly observing and assessing John, trying to figure him out. I like that they are not totally googoo-eyed for each other but learn to like and respect each other first. That’s refreshingly different from normal TV love stories.
Drake is doing really well as John. I see a little of both Sam and Dean in his performance at times. He has a Jensen-esque ability to keep emotions just under the surface but let us clearly see them. When they DO jump to the foreground like John’s occasional violent outburst or the tears at the very end, it’s hard to watch because it’s believable and you feel for him.
Love the scenes between John and Millie, both actors are great in them and I like the loving but realistically complicated relationship they seem to have. John is already displaying the very “Winchester” don’t talk about it, just bury it, attitude here and I like hearing from Millie that she struggles with talking about feelings as well, so he obviously learned that from her. But then when he REALLY needs the emotional support at the very end, she’s right there and jumping into the running shower to hug him tight. LOVED that scene.
Also already visible is John’s willingness to sacrifice himself for others and it seems natural for him and the jump into action and ask questions later vibe very much reminds of Sam and Dean.The case was interesting to me at the start and I liked that at least some of the info, like that there are other cases like this all across the country, came from an outside source (the reporter kid) this time. Of course, then they magically find the right book again quickly to figure out what they are fighting.
(Side Note: I had really hoped that The Winchesters would slow down the case solving to maybe one in every TWO shows to make the search for clues more time accurate….BUT I get that I’m the minority with this and that most audience probably wants the MOW format….hence….magic books at every turn.)I didn’t get the reasoning, though, that the “white old men” of the MoL would not have similar books at the club house and Latha and Mary had to go into Maggie’s room for it?! That seemed pretty tortured.
I enjoyed that we got Carlos and John working together and have Latha and Mary on the outside. The new team up was a nice change.
Glad to find out more about Carlos here and was surprised to find out he was in Vietnam as well and why. I did like his therapy sharing scene but needed a little more to the story to really understand his trauma there. He gets a little too emotional for me there without an obvious part of his story causing it but I do liked the glimpse at a more serious and deep Carlos. I wondered for a moment if he was just ACTING and sharing the emotional story to get out of there to search the files? Until he talked to John about how talking about it really helped. I do like how their friendship is still hesitant but growing warmer in this episode. They aren’t exactly sure of what to make of the other but sense that it’s worth figuring out.
Unfortunately, later in the episode the case got really thin and confusing to me:
Why would the god-monster want to have John join him to fight the Akrida? What interest does the god have in that situation? Was he after ANY soldier that could be honed? Why only in psych wards? And WHO moves the amphora around? Neto himself?When Neto says to John that there are centuries of violence and anger in his blood, I guess it’s a reference to the SPN revelation about Cain and Abel? How would he know that if he’s a god from a non-Christian pantheon?
Why would John go into the jungle room without a clear indication that Carlos as in there? I’d liked to see him find something of Carlo’s at least to lure him in there….
The fight scenes were great, though! Lots of good action and different because of the spears.
Millie wanting to check out John, the Doc first telling her that the psych ward is locked and then suddenly giving them free reign because Millie threatens with the news was WEIRD!
Also ODD that the ladies were looking in bags and in drawers for a vase.
Also ODD that John breaks the spear and kills Neto with the wooden shaft. WHY? If that is the only way to kill the god, how did John know? And if that wasn’t the only way to do it why not use the actual glowy, pointy end??
Some scenes felt to me like they were stunted, maybe incomplete because parts were being edited out?
I really liked JoJo’s performance in this one, less airy, a little more weight, a little more nuanced. Like when Carlos finds John after killing the god and John is pretty much covered in blood, Carlos gives him a GREAT look that is in equal parts understanding and a little scared. Very good. And his last outfit when he sits back in the group therapy is Price-style fabulous.
My favorite parts of this episode were the inter-human relationship building scenes. I do like each of the actors and they make me interested in the characters and wanting to find out more.
I’d give this one a 5 out of 10. Wonky case but stronger character scenes.
