PigNaPoke
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It’s probably my overall mood or stress level, but I was supremely ANNOYED by this episode!!!
There is SO MUCH potential, there are some REALLY nice moments, BUT the full package seemed SO labored.
I had a really hard time hanging on to the GOOD parts to overlook the irritating parts and I kinda failed tonight.
Let me try to stick with the things I actually liked first:
The “two dads save the day” idea was really nice!
Having Henry make an appearance was great and I like the way they did NOT talk about why Henry left for time purposes and Henry had some useful info to contribute. Bringing in the music box from the original SPN was a nice touch. I also loved that scene where Henry tells John he’s proud of him. Seeing Gil was wonderful. Drake did a very good job in the emotional scenes leading up to Henry apprearing and when they spoke to each other. The mix of incredulity and appreciation for getting to hear praise from his dad was heartfelt. (Of course, then I think about how we know from the original SPN that John never found out about any of this…)
I liked the involvement of Millie in translating the “code” and the moments between Millie and Ada. The two mature women talking about the issues with the younger hunters was fun and SO RELATABLE!!!
I also liked finding out yet a little more about Carlos, his love for music and about what got him into hunting, even though the whole thing got pretty much lost in this episode. Another short but nice moment was where he was lamenting that the gang might break up after finding Mary’s dad. JoJo seemed natural and sincere and believable, not flippant of comedic. It was refreshing. And I love his hair. LOL.
I did like that Samuel showed up and was competent with the box to suck up the monster-crabs. I love Tom Welling and am excited to have another older character be part of this. I hope they give him something to DO.
The actress playing Roxy is fun to watch!!
RSJ did add some interesting camera work and the overall pacing was good in this episode.
But I don’t want to have THAT be the most notable thing in the episode!!! I want to be CAPTURED by the story and the character’s hardship or triumph. And none of our core gang did much to that effect this episode.
SIGH!!
Now to the stupid:
Right out of the gate I was annoyed. I know they were trying to launch straight into the action but giving us exposition of what John and Mary were doing at the radio tower WHILE “sneaking up” on it and talking on big bulky walkie-talkies was just DUMB.
I am starting to lose hope that Mary has another level of emotion besides rushed, gruff, barking orders and acting rashly. She just doesn’t come across as smart and that really starts to bug me. She is NOTHING like Dean as much as they want us to see parallels. Her blank face, stiff manner and constant rushing into things and demanding answers that are not there is getting on my last nerve. Every time the gang tries to research she just wants to rush into action without the proper tools. It IS partially that Meg doesn’t convince me that there is more to Mary or that she can play that, but it is also how the writers chose to present her that doesn’t help at all to make her more likable or at least make me want to care for her struggle.
And boy oh boy do they like to state the obvious on this show!! The dialogue often states blunt facts from before the last commercial break or the last episode or filler info that is totally superfluous if one paid a modicum of attention while watching the last episode. It’s almost as if they are trying to fill in a new audience every single week. Totally annoying.
As much as I did like the moments I mentioned above, the ways they tried to get to these moments seemed mostly silly. Like to need Henry to appear via séance because no one could read his shorthand/code? Dumb.
Why were they all SO amazed that the candles blew out during the séance? Nothing extraordinary happened. Seemed overdone and odd.
Mary keeps grunting and screaming in every fight scene like one of those female tennis players who get on my nerves.
Having John and Mary trap themselves in the warehouse and conveniently drop the box to make room Samuel to come into play and save the day? Dumb.
I got ZERO chemistry from the moment before or during the John and Mary kiss. Z.E.R.O. (So sad)
The Akrida Monster story is also starting to lose me. I was interested in the Roxy character and what she meant to the whole arc but now it seems that she’s just a grunt, too, AND gone? And there is a queen? And a bunch of possessed humans are digging zombie like some weird portal out of a tunnel in a sugar cane field???? DUMB. UGH.
Drake is doing a fine job as all along and he had some nice moments here again, but it’s like he’s acting in a vacuum most the time and that makes the whole things kinda hollow.
Lata was mostly useless in this episode – or better she was used as bland background character or researcher.
I am NOT a fan of them peppering in music we know or have an attachment to from SPN! The “Americana” theme is Sam and Dean for me….not overall Winchester Family. I cringed every time it came up in this episode.
I really HATED the use of “Can’t find my way home” here either. It’s been used SO effectively on SPN in some pivotal moments, but here it seemed a cheap throwaway “easter egg” I didn’t want.
PNP
I enjoyed the addition of two older hunters and that they were both female. Of course, one didn’t make it long, but I appreciate the effort. LOL
“Aunt” Tracy felt real to me in her no-nonsense attitude to live and hunting. The actress found a good way to portray the fine line between being hardened by a hunter’s life and still emotional enough to seem shaken up by the loss of her friend and remorseful about her past mistakes. I very much liked her as a character.
I can also understand why she would be a great inspiration to Mary for starting to think that “getting out” is an option for her. Tracy did it and had at least a good long while success at it. (Well, until we find out she has a DARK past and reason to get out, but ok, who doesn’t have some skeletons in their closet in this universe?)
I agree, JBB, that so far in the series they talked about Mary wanting to leave the life too much, but in this episode and against this particular circumstance, I actually didn’t mind or even enjoyed it.
I, too, thought that the BUCKET of blood at the beginning was very odd and not SPN “real”. HAHA. RSJ should know better. Unless they were referencing some specific thing I am unaware of.
To me it was way better this time how they had to piece together the evidence. It wasn’t Lata for once who immediately knew it all. She just “knew a guy” who then helped and even THAT led them only part of the way. I thought Lata’s mentioning of a specific “monster identifying” book that was left behind in the club house was ridiculous, though!!! WAY too Harry Potter for me.
The hunter’s funeral was done REALLY well and tastefully filmed, I thought, as we’ve never seen the prep of a body before in any SPN episode. Here it conveyed a somber respect and reverence for the fallen comrade in the care they took to prepare and wrap her. I agree, JBB, that the flopping hand was a very nice and realistic touch here as well.
It, of course, reminded me as well of Dean’s funeral pyre, and mostly made me very sad as to what Sam had to go through to prepare Dean for it. But even with that grim thought, I liked the fresh look at it in this episode here a lot.
I also thought Carlos had good moments. I really like his more serious side, like when he’s trying to convince John to go to therapy with him, and his sly remarks without being too silly. However, the whole flustered thing over the hunky taxidermist, Anton, was annoying to me. I just didn’t buy that confident, flirty, Harlequin-romance-novel-adoring Carlos would get THIS bend out of shape this quickly. It felt overdone and silly to me and went on too long.
I don’t mind the Soucouyant witch-pire baddy this week. YES, it was a little weird about Barbados for the reasons you mentioned, JBB, but I heard about Soucouyant stories in New Orleans (due to the Carribbean influences there) and maybe they just didn’t want to base another story there so soon?
I very much agree with you, though, that fighting monster witches in bright sunlight is NOT scary and really not giving me SPN vibes! I want creepy, nighttime hunts and shadowy locations to explore.
I did enjoy Anton and Lata digging into the witch’s arm with glee, but I do think overall that the young hunter’s are a bit too nonchalant around gore, too.
NICE twist with the monster being possessed by Mac’s vengeful spirit that then jumped into John. I didn’t see that coming and it was a good story point (plus Drake did a good job at playing it). I just thought the exposition about Mac as a bit labored and long. And the parallel about the “dark soul” hunter to what John might become was too heavy-handed.
To me Meg did a better job in this episode giving me a little more emotion from Mary. Like in the scene with John after he got injured by the Soucouyant. Maybe she was just playing off of Drake here, who I thought nailed that scene and John’s conflicting emotions, but as a whole I felt more from Mary giving him crap about his motives. And the last scene with John was warmer and more believable to me as well. (And I say it again, maybe Meg’s portrayal of Mary isn’t bothering me as much because I never expected that much open emotion from Mary to begin with because I never felt that from Sam Smith either. LOL)
Of course, it was idiotic and very “Winchester” of John to do exactly what Mary accused him of being his weak point. But I can see that as a character trait of his, the running into danger without much considering his own risk, because we know that so well from his sons.
I’m sure everyone involved was very proud of the fight scene in the barn….I think they need some more practice to make it look better. It seemed pretty amateurish to me. Tracy should have at least TRIED to fight back when Mac/John has her in a choke hold. Carlos was out too quickly – no doubt to even the odds. Mary does not look like an experienced fighter, she fell down too much. LOL. But I don’t fault them for lack of experience here. Maybe if they had made Mac/John look MORE powerful it might have balanced out? But I appreciate them trying to include an epic fight scene. Those will get better with time.
I loved that Lata saved the day with HER special gift of empathy. THAT was a nice touch and I’m really glad we learned so much more about her past and motivations. She gained nice depth for me this episode and made me believe that her constantly sunny attitude we’ve seen so far is really just put on to hide her doubts about being a liability and torn between two worlds, like she says to Carlos in the van. So, it was lovely to see her actually being the ONE who was best suited to solve the issue in the end and get through to Mac and convince him to let go and break the cycle.
I’m a little surprise that Tracy lived, but I’m pleased by it! YES, she fucked up in her earlier hunter’s live, but I’m glad she has a chance for redemption and was just discarded!!
I very much agree with you, JBB, on the point that I want to see more “real life” friction for the characters as well. You make an excellent point how they currently kinda float through their surroundings in a bubble without much real interaction or conflict with the world. I get that the world wasn’t as connected back then in the big picture (like law enforcement catching on to some of their minor crimes like B&E) but there should be some of the strive that comes from living in a smallish town in Kansas and their unconventional way to live and “work”. I am sure there are plenty of opinions circulating at the diner and the supermarket and the church….etc….I would love to see some of the character’s interactions in a real way with that part of life.
Still, overall it was one of the strongest episodes so far to me, because there was real character development, an interesting case and a widening of the season story arc.
I really liked this case and the deeper look into Mary’s past and Ada’s past.
I just don’t like the easy way that solutions always present themselves to the gang! THAT fact alone takes me out of their struggle as hunters. I want a montage of them looking for information for a few days and gathering clues, running into dead ends, having to pivot and try again! Even Sam and Dean had to do that and THEY had technology on their side. I don’t want Latha or Ada to always know everything. It’s too easy.
OK, and I DON’T like the bug monsters!! They are kinda stupid and alien and not scary! But at least we now know that these are NOT the actual AKRIDA, but only foot soldiers, and “the Akrida” seems to be the local DJ Roxanne? Looked like her rings on the lady’s fingers who collected the essence of the Tree Witch monster from the cemetery in epsiode 2?!
I DID like a lot that here we meet a gin (or two, if you count Ali’s attempt) who actually want to use their abilities to HELP people !! That was refreshing and new and totally within the realm of possibility with what we knew of gin before.
Ada’s pain of having failed her son was also well done and relatable and a echo of the issues that Sam and Dean had at the beginning of navigating the sea of grey that is hunting.
I liked Tony and the actor did a fine job of relating the issues Tony had with feeling abandoned and alone in the world. AND the moment with Latha was cute when he asks if he can write to her! HA.
I liked to find out that Mary’s deepest trauma was that her parents told her the truth at five years old and she feels like it stole her future.
I found it interesting how Mary’s issues with her parents being TOO truthful and Tony’s issues with Ada not being truthful enough both result in the same – resentment over the parents and the seeking of their own paths.
I liked John stepping up and helping Mary to face her dreaded memories without it feeling romantic (yet).
I also liked finding out that Millie gave Henry a bike! Somehow that is really cool to me. And that John and Mary both know their way around an engine was also a nice touch! I wish my parents every had or would have taught me practical knowledge like that…lol…instead I got music education and TONS of history and lore and legends. HEHE. I just didn’t get the scene where John tells Mary she can have the bike when they are done fixing it so she can get a fresh start….she already HAS a car….HE needs a ride at the moment! And Mary accepts it as if it’s NO bid deal?
A few really ODD moments for me were that we find out the club house has a medical lab or autopsy room or whatever without anyone really mentioning it or talking about it!!
And Latha saying “Mary’s bonds are ok for now but they won’t hold forever” was totally idiotic!! So….TIGHTEN THEM….duh!
But overall, I enjoyed this one a lot!
There are a lot of good parts in this episode but as a whole it never managed to feel like one of my favorites. I think it’s because the whole ruse WAR puts on with who is or isn’t a demon goes on a little too long or I whish there was some other part to the story. Or maybe the episode really mostly lives in the surprise of what really is going on that simply doesn’t work on third, fourth or tenth watch anymore?
Anyhow I DO enjoy watching the characters interact and love how this season right away kicks into high gear with the Big Bads and introduces the Four Horsemen here! The choice of the horsemen’s “rides” is also really fun.
Seeing Cas so intense at the beginning – wanting to look for God, revealing the truth about the amulet, telling Dean he’ll better support his (Cas’) plan because he gave up everything for him – really drives the point home how urgent and big this situation is.
And I find it touching that even though Dean really doesn’t know where he stands with Sam at the moment he doesn’t want to let go of the amulet and what it means to him!
THE BRIDGE from the finale!!! Seeing it now brings up so many feelings…..but it is a gorgeous location. I wonder how the special effect with the gap was created.
It’s great to have Ellen, Jo and Rufus back and all in one episode.
Ellen’s tough love is very refreshing. Giving both Sam and Dean a piece of her mind about cutting her out. HA. And later telling Dean to suck it up and work on the problem with what he’s got….HER…and not wish for Sam or Bobby.
I love the fact that BOTH Sam and Dean figure out what’s going on separately from each other, showing that they are perfectly equal in wits.
And how poignant nowadays how War says here that people don’t really need a reason to kill each other!! More true than EVER. SIGH.
It’s a very good follow up story for the hard trust conversation we had at the end of the last episode! We see the tension keep building here and think it’s real how Sam and Dean drift further apart just to then find out much of that was probably caused by War’s influence on the town. Then you relax and hope that they actually see that and make a new try at reconciliation just to have another twist with the brothers deciding to split up completely at the end. UGH! For Sam and Dean to NOT put each other before everything else and stick together is so hard to accept but an excellent painful story point and from that angle I love that the show allowed time for the deep hurt to scab over enough for them to go forward together again. Both Jared and Jensen are doing amazing work in that scene making us hang on every word and really feeling for both brothers. You can tell how Sam is still hoping for Dean to try and talk him out of leaving and you can see how it pains Dean not to be able to bring himself to do just that. It’s still as hard to take as ever.
The ONE thing I don’t like about this episode’s storyline is the confusion over IF or IF NOT Sam was actually cured of the addiction to the demon blood or the power that it gives him. We are made to believe that Sam isn’t jonesing for a hit but then War says its “all blood all the time” in Sam’s head. So was Sam lying to Dean at the beginning? Or was War just influencing him to believe he still wants it? Shouldn’t God’s cure be stronger than War’s manipulations? And in the end the blood wasn’t even demon blood anyway, so why would that cause Sam to slide back. That part made me believe it was War’s meddling that made Sam think he wants it, but that should have lifted when War was taken off line. Maybe he wasn’t addicted to it at all ever and it was always only about the power? But at the end Sam says that he doesn’t trust himself and that the blood was a temptation…
It just throws too many things out of whack and into suspicion that we barely understood to begin with. And then it never gets really cleared up or explained.
What GREAT Season Premier! SO much new info, twists and turns, a few funny bits, exciting fight scenes, awesome one liners and real tough truths. It is so packed with action and story it feels much longer than the 42 minutes, in a good way.
Few questions that popped into my brain this time around:
– Sam and Dean get whisked away from the convent when Lucifer is already rising and the bright column of light is in full swing but they are put on the plane (by God?) seemingly BEFORE that actually happens. Then they see the column of light exploding and the plane apparently goes down? A little bad planning by God, don’t you think? LOL
– Dean says when he uses the Angel banishing sigil that it’s something Cas taught them but wasn’t it Ana who introduces the method to them?
– Meg smokes out of her meatsuit after the fight in the hotel. How does she use the same meatsuit in later episodes?
– What happened to the all demon meatsuits in the storage unit? Did Sam and Dean dispose of them?I love Dean’s defiance all through out and his sarcastic come backs but it is also very clear that it’s his usual way of not dealing at all with his actual feelings and simply deflecting it all until he absolutely can’t anymore. That makes the conversation at the end of the episode SO impactful. You don’t see it coming. You expect Dean to keep suppressing it and move on, happy to have Sam back at all. But then to hear from him HOW DEEPLY hurt and disappointed he actually was and that he doesn’t feel he can trust Sam anymore, slices both Sam and the audience to the bone. It’s so heartbreaking on BOTH their parts. And we know that the words stick with Sam throughout the years, judging by his despair in the season 8 finale where he worries about letting Dean down yet again. To me this is one of THE toughest but also most honest conversations they have in 15 seasons.
And as hard as it is to watch Sam NEEDED to be told this! Not just by Dean, but also by Demon-Bobby. Even if Bobby says later it was the demon talking and he didn’t mean it I think SAM HEARD and took the criticism to heart about not listening, being arrogant and behaving stupidly while under Ruby’s influence.
It was a really nice story twist to make Bobby of all people be so harsh to Sam at the beginning when Sam tries to explain himself and apologize!! I remember thinking from the start that something was odd there because it was also Bobby who had admonished Dean for giving up on Sam at the end of Season 4!! But it was still a shock seeing Bobby’s eyes turn black.
The scenes with Nick are all nicely creepy and paint a good picture of why he would be susceptible to Lucifer’s gentle persuasion.
I always thought it was a very interesting choice to show how cruel and conniving Zachariah is in his attempt to get his way with Dean and how on the opposite side Lucifer is kind and honest to finagle his way into Nick!! (Also Kurt Fuller just ROCKS this role and is so wonderful to watch in it!!)
I was glad to see some real imposing presence from Cas here. He is decisive and a little scary and kicks some ass (BRAVO for some good editing making Misha look very capable as a fighter! LOL).
Poor Sam gets hit in the head a lot in this episode, first with a toilet plunger by Chuck and then with a telephone by Meg, plus kicked in the jewels! OUCH! But there are a lot of great fight scenes in this episode.
I remember when first watching it that I hated Becky’s character because she was so clearly meant to represent the fandom and in SUCH awfully cringy way. I felt made fun off and discounted and insulted because in my limited experience then I thought this is NOT how fans are!!! WELL….NOW I find her much funnier. I don’t feel represented by her anymore and therefor not attacked, BUT I also know that fans like her DO exist and that there unfortunately is a cringeworthy part of the fandom. And that has nothing to do with fan fiction or anything else people like to express themselves through, but only with the way some fans choose to behave withing the fandom community and go about communicating through social media to and about the actors etc. I can watch it from afar and find some of it funny and some of it horrendous, but I don’t feel part of THAT section of our fandom. Therefore now, I can fully enjoy Becky’s excitement about meeting her idol (Chuck) and then her fantasy (Sam) and her comments about it all.
This episode hits a 9 out of 10 for me. One point deduction just because I hate seeing the boys at odds.
Hi JBB,
I totally agree with you on Latha!! I am very disappointed with her character. I love the diversity as well, but I need that also to STAND for something. I don’t want nerdy-smart Indian book girl! I want more grit and less Disney-ish delivery of everything she says. She’s like a ray of sunshine that breaks through the curtains and doesn’t let you sleep – warm, bright and annoying.
Maybe it gets better if we get more of her back story, but at the moment she sticks out and not in a good way. She’s pretty unnecessary on the road, too. She would be more believable if she stayed behind and support them from her library job and MoL club house.
I want to like her, but there has to be more there.
I keep thinking of Charlie on SPN. She was cute, bubbly, innocent, nerdy, smart, clumsy – pretty much all the things Latha displays – BUT you could tell immediately that there was more to her story and she is brave, which I haven’t seen from Latha yet.
Of all characters, she leaves me the coldest.
I don’t have a problem with believing Mary’s trauma over the loss of Maggie. I can understand her sadness over losing a sister of sorts. Aside from that it seems to me that Maggie’s death at such young age gives Mary some anxiety over the ticking timer on her own chance to get out AND at the same time Maggie’s death gives Mary the impression that she won’t make it out of the life at all. Locking all that away by not going into the room seems realistic to me.
Does Millie maybe know more about Henry’s MoL activity and is not AS disbelieving of the supernatural as a complete innocent would be? And if it’s not that….maybe it’s just in the Winchester family to be totally ready to roll with the supernatural punches? John did the same thing. LOL
PNP
Hi Y’all,
forgive me if some of the following thoughts are repeats of yours, but I am posting without reading first:
I did like the sparring sequence at the very beginning. Good choreography and it looked real to me. I also liked the glimpse at how Mary sees that something’s bothering John but instead of talking she offers a REAL sparring match to get it out of his system. Very “Winchester” of her. I wondered for a moment if John would go all out on her and how she would be fairing. I liked the little twist that even though she offered herself as a punching bag she ends up showing him he’s fighting too fairly or squarely.
I’m warming up to Mary a little more. She’s less wooden and I can see that she is trying to be less bossy with the gang. Her scenes with Latha going through Maggie’s things were very nice and I loved the little ritual they picked up from Maggie with the post cards stating some GOOD things that happened during the hunt! I like that we can see Mary constantly observing and assessing John, trying to figure him out. I like that they are not totally googoo-eyed for each other but learn to like and respect each other first. That’s refreshingly different from normal TV love stories.
Drake is doing really well as John. I see a little of both Sam and Dean in his performance at times. He has a Jensen-esque ability to keep emotions just under the surface but let us clearly see them. When they DO jump to the foreground like John’s occasional violent outburst or the tears at the very end, it’s hard to watch because it’s believable and you feel for him.
Love the scenes between John and Millie, both actors are great in them and I like the loving but realistically complicated relationship they seem to have. John is already displaying the very “Winchester” don’t talk about it, just bury it, attitude here and I like hearing from Millie that she struggles with talking about feelings as well, so he obviously learned that from her. But then when he REALLY needs the emotional support at the very end, she’s right there and jumping into the running shower to hug him tight. LOVED that scene.
Also already visible is John’s willingness to sacrifice himself for others and it seems natural for him and the jump into action and ask questions later vibe very much reminds of Sam and Dean.The case was interesting to me at the start and I liked that at least some of the info, like that there are other cases like this all across the country, came from an outside source (the reporter kid) this time. Of course, then they magically find the right book again quickly to figure out what they are fighting.
(Side Note: I had really hoped that The Winchesters would slow down the case solving to maybe one in every TWO shows to make the search for clues more time accurate….BUT I get that I’m the minority with this and that most audience probably wants the MOW format….hence….magic books at every turn.)I didn’t get the reasoning, though, that the “white old men” of the MoL would not have similar books at the club house and Latha and Mary had to go into Maggie’s room for it?! That seemed pretty tortured.
I enjoyed that we got Carlos and John working together and have Latha and Mary on the outside. The new team up was a nice change.
Glad to find out more about Carlos here and was surprised to find out he was in Vietnam as well and why. I did like his therapy sharing scene but needed a little more to the story to really understand his trauma there. He gets a little too emotional for me there without an obvious part of his story causing it but I do liked the glimpse at a more serious and deep Carlos. I wondered for a moment if he was just ACTING and sharing the emotional story to get out of there to search the files? Until he talked to John about how talking about it really helped. I do like how their friendship is still hesitant but growing warmer in this episode. They aren’t exactly sure of what to make of the other but sense that it’s worth figuring out.
Unfortunately, later in the episode the case got really thin and confusing to me:
Why would the god-monster want to have John join him to fight the Akrida? What interest does the god have in that situation? Was he after ANY soldier that could be honed? Why only in psych wards? And WHO moves the amphora around? Neto himself?When Neto says to John that there are centuries of violence and anger in his blood, I guess it’s a reference to the SPN revelation about Cain and Abel? How would he know that if he’s a god from a non-Christian pantheon?
Why would John go into the jungle room without a clear indication that Carlos as in there? I’d liked to see him find something of Carlo’s at least to lure him in there….
The fight scenes were great, though! Lots of good action and different because of the spears.
Millie wanting to check out John, the Doc first telling her that the psych ward is locked and then suddenly giving them free reign because Millie threatens with the news was WEIRD!
Also ODD that the ladies were looking in bags and in drawers for a vase.
Also ODD that John breaks the spear and kills Neto with the wooden shaft. WHY? If that is the only way to kill the god, how did John know? And if that wasn’t the only way to do it why not use the actual glowy, pointy end??
Some scenes felt to me like they were stunted, maybe incomplete because parts were being edited out?
I really liked JoJo’s performance in this one, less airy, a little more weight, a little more nuanced. Like when Carlos finds John after killing the god and John is pretty much covered in blood, Carlos gives him a GREAT look that is in equal parts understanding and a little scared. Very good. And his last outfit when he sits back in the group therapy is Price-style fabulous.
My favorite parts of this episode were the inter-human relationship building scenes. I do like each of the actors and they make me interested in the characters and wanting to find out more.
I’d give this one a 5 out of 10. Wonky case but stronger character scenes.
Overall nice episode.
I liked that we were finding out a few more nuggets about each of the core four. Deepening the characters.
Man, Mary IS bossy…and rash. The way she just overwrites everyone and orders them around isn’t smart. But it’s quite realistic for a teenager I would say. Especially one that is used to have orders barked AT her. As Carlos says later, she does exactly what she didn’t enjoy having done to her. However, it’s something familiar to her so she falls into it .
Really liked Carlos being less loud in this one and standing up to Mary trying to set her straight by telling her she’s being “too Samuel” like !! JoJo had some really good moments in this episode.
And I’m glad Mary came around and apologized seeing her mistake. And I loved the conversation between Carlos and Mary back at the club house where she brings it back up and wants to clear the air. A more open communication between the team members will be a good thing to see happening.
Lata is lovely and I like that the team has their own lore expert around with her. She’s basically the new (or old) version of always available WiFi and the internet on SPN…lol.
You can start to see why John and Mary might bond over their parent issues. Although they are coming from opposite ends at it – John wanting to FIND his purpose and legacy and Mary wanting to shed it. Will be interesting to explore further.
INTERSTING about Ada and her knowledge to induce that trance to write the echo words! Do we think she WAS a woman of letters?
Some of my other thoughts as I was watching:
Question: Was the burnt out creepy old factory supposed to be the MoL chapter house in Savannah?? Not realistic looking at all of the other chapter houses we have seen before? Unless this one was supposed to be long abandoned? (Nice locale though)
Is Dean’s voice over a little too Jensen Texas drawl to anyone else?
I like the use of the “classic” looking zombie here. We haven’t had that on SPN. And they even died the “Walking Dead Way” by stabbing them in the head. NICE.
Someone could’ve told John that beating a zombie won’t kill it. LOL. But he throws some great punches. I like that his current M.O. is to go all out with his hand-to-hand skills, because it’s realistic that he would fall back on something he knows. However, I want him to ask more questions about what to do.
So, they drove from Kansas to New Orleans and back to Kansas in the pilot. Now to Savannah just to find a lead back to Kansas? LOL. That’s a lot of driving, even with cheap gas. And John said that “the last two weeks” they’ve been looking for Samuel but the last we saw in the pilot was them taking off to Savannah….they drove two weeks?
Didn’t like the fight between Millie and John. That seemed a little forced and he was so rude to her. She isn’t asking much…ONE CALL. But we need a little more back story about their relationship to judge what’s happening between them. We know already that he faked his age and signed up to the Marines without her say-so. He seems quite rebellious and bull-headed, which fits with his later self.
And I loved the conversation between John and Millie at the end. It seemed real and warm and nuanced. Both actors did really well with it. And it made the fight at the beginning more understandable to me.YES, first TW motel!! Funny, but when I saw the cars in the parking lot, I’m looking for Baby and then thought “huh, all vintage cars?”….duh…we’re in the 70’s. I was wondering if a cheap motel they’ll stay in now should look vintage to the THEIR time period? Like 50’s or 40’s style?
I do like what’s happening between Ada and Millie. Could be a cool adult female friendship or at least uneasy alliance.
OK, now we know that Millie didn’t move to Lawrence AFTER Henry went missing, because HENRY planted the jasmine at the garage for protection. (Then my confusion about the location is back as Henry was living in Normal, IL when he disappeared. Oversight? Or will be explained later?)
A PHONE BOOTH at the Hippie Camp?! HA.
I liked Lata’s lore book and the story about the monster. Nice and gruesome. Just would have liked to have a little explanation why an incredibly rare monster from Columbia is in Kansas.
They could have made the monster lady way more scary, though! She was nothing like the drawing in the book. Her outfit and wig looked like a cheap Halloween costume. Either make her older and witchy looking OR make her more tree like. Her look didn’t work for me at all and took me out of the story.Also – sorry – the special effects were pretty weak. The hole in the ground looked better on SPN in season 5 (2010) than here. The vines never looked like they were actually penetrating to feed (or were they just supposed to tie the victims down?). Mary stabbing the monster at the end looked like she never gotten the stake through the fabric of the robe. ETC.
UHM….wouldn’t there be water in those copper pipes John rips out from under the sink like the Hulk? Unless John cut off the main?
It was very obvious that Millie was La Tunda. But I did like that we hear a little more about the chip on John’s shoulder about his dad leaving and him feeling like he wasn’t worth staying for.
There was a misplaced “Audrey III” reference from Mary! Little Shop of Horrors – where the man-eating plant
Audrey is from – didn’t open until 1986!!HA, I guess, John’s thing will be to have monster goo spewed in the face? First the zombie and then La Tunda’s green sap?
Pretty intriguing end there. Someone coming for the essence of the La Tunda and drawing those crawly things to follow? Was that the same thing as in the New Orleans crypt? Were those Akrida? I hope not. They looked like shadowy crabs.
I was again entertained and want to see more.
Hey Borgmama1of5, great to have you here joining the discussion!
You make an EXCELLENT POINT about John’s attitude towards it all in “The Song Remains The Same”!! I had not thought about that. I still would hope for a little more inquisitiveness (I don’t think that’s a word, right?) from John in future episodes, but I can accept his “roll with the punches” behavior a little better now that you pointed that out. THANKS!
YES, I thought about the licorice discussion between Sam and Dean as well! HA! I am completely on Sam’s side in that argument. Licorice DOES taste like DIRT!
Even though the notion that Dean is more like Mary and Sam is more like John was already established in SPN canon and I do like subtle hints at that here in TW (like the licorice thing) I’m a little worried that they will start showing it down our throats more forcefully in the run of this show. I believe that kids, although predestined to pick up SOME traits of their parents, have the ability to change their behavioral patterns away from their parents’ and develop their own character traits based on their own life experiences. Same goes for Sam and Dean. I don’t want to be fed heavy handed parallels all throughout TW that are meant to make me think that I am practically watching a version of Sam and Dean here!!
Not that Robbie would write it like that, but that might be something the Network or Studio want to convey….feeding off the popularity of SPN.
Most of all, though, I hope that the show is given a REAL chance by the audience, network, studio and whatever other PTB out there to become an entertaining and relevant companion piece to the OG SPN!
Of course, it will never diminish my desire for more Sam and Dean and Supernatural!! And TW will never completely measure up to the OG mothership and “our boys”…..but then….I would never LET it either.
PNP
Hey All, after pondering it some more I think why the episode seemed a little frantic or clunky and many things were just touched on too briefly was because they had to introduce four core characters in 42 minutes and leave us at least with a cursatory impression.
Jensen and Robbie both said that this will be an ensemble show and the “core four” are ALL important from the start whereas SPN was mostly about Sam and Dean and only until it became kind of ensemble-y with Cas joining.
Plus you have Millie and Ada (LOVE how many important WOMEN we have here) who need a little attention, too, as they seem to be guiding influences in some ways.To me Robbie did a good job giving me a few important bits about each character to be intrigued and want more. That’s really most I hoped for from the pilot, that the characters were hinting at layers that can be explored.
The MAIN thing that bothered me that John wasn’t more skeptical!! That was WAY too glossed over. Like kate38 said “This is a demon….from hell.” “OH, cool, let’s have coffee and find our dads.”I
I can buy that John is WILLING to accept that there could be supernatural beings. And I definitely can buy that he is brave and self-sacrificing in the face of danger, especially after just coming back from Vietnam. And I also understand that he jumps on this new “mission” of fighting monsters and finding out more about his dad’s world but for him to seem like a SMART character I need him to ask more questions and be a little stunned at it all.
And his way to explain why he went to Vietnam to find out more about his dad was really confusing.
Maybe he meant that Henry was a duty driven man and he wanted to experience that in his own way through military service and see if it was something they shared a passion for? But if that’s it, I need to hear THAT from Millie amd John. John was only four when Henry escaped Abbadon and found Sam and Dean. John couldn’t have remembered much details about his dad without someone telling him. At the moment it sounds like his was physically searching for Henry in Vietnam.On the other side what DOES immediately feel to me like we are playing in the same world as SPN is all the rich detail in the sets and locations!! It might not be Jerry Wanek anymore but whoever has taken this on is doing a great job evoking the same magic so far!! There was A LOT for the Production design team to do between the MoL “clubhouse”, Ada’s bookstore, the Winchester Garage, the crypt!!
Now, one other BIG question I have is: In “Time Goes By” Henry lives in NORMAL, IL when he leaves his family to go “to work” and then disappears, but TW is set in Lawrence, KS and Henry’s chapter house is there….. I doubt Henry had to drive from Normal to Lawrence every time to go to a meeting of the MoL??
Hey Stedan,
I too am eagerly hoping for a SPN reboot and the almost cruel teaser to see only Dean only made that wish more desperste, BUT….
if T.W. can bridge the time until then and provide worthy entertainment in the SPN universe….I’m IN for the ride!I never watched “How I met your mother” so that reference during the NYCCC was kinda lost on me.
I AM hoping that Dean won’t string is along too long for answers on his findings AND his situation!! His narration is intriguing to me, though and I trust Robbie to use it as an interesting tool for us to get unique insight into the past that the characters IN it not yet have.
Jensen said in a TVLine interview last week that there will be OTHER voices added to the narration here and there. (I’m guessing Sam?!)
And Robbie said that episode 13 will reveal A LOT on how this fits into canon we know!I always loved the way Robbie wrote and revealed characters in layers. I am excited to see what he’ll do here!
I just watched the episode again and liked it again very much!
I thought Meg did a fine job portraying Mary as starting off very abrasive and blustery but showing subtle signs of surprise and interest over John’s fast involvement and softer nature pretty quickly. She takes charge, yes, but she seems to be the one with the longest experience, so I don’t mind that. And she delegates jobs to the team member she trusts to be good at what she asks. To me that’s being a good leader. I’m excited to see more.
Kate38, you mentioned Mary being “too Buffy” for you. I laughed at that!! Great thought! Although, I have to say that I always LOVED watching Buffy ASIDE from the fact that most female characters were heavily sexualized (with the sleazy 90’s outfits and dumbed down lines) and didn’t NEED to be!! I was very happy to see that T.W. seem to follow a different, more modern and empowered way on that subject! We had several strong female characters in this pilot and not a sleazy outfit in sight!! Happy about that.
I will DEFINITELY do my best to WATCH T.W. for as long as the show is on the air!! Even if it’s just to support the creative team behind the scenes!!
Hey, I’m STILL watching Walker after all to support Jared, even though I REALLY don’t enjoy it or think it’s a well written show. It’s more like a chore. LolPNP
WELCOME, STEDAN!!!
It is so great to have NEW fans joining us here to chat and exchange opinions!!!
We are a 100% SAFE place here!!!
ALL opinions are respected and listened to. No one is shamed or bullied!
We don’t have to agree but no thought is discounted.
I had some of the best discussions here over the last years and often on subjects some of us DISagree on. Lol.
I learned A LOT here and I consider the people here my REAL SPN FAMILY.SO…AGAIN…welcome
PNP
To me it makes more sense if the Dean scene at the end of The Winchester pilot was not set in Heaven.
They could’ve out the old plates back on after Chuck was gone.
Also in this scene the cooler is in the back seat and the amulet hangs on the rearview mirror – both not the case in Dean’s ride around Heaven’s back roads in the finals as far as I recall!
The feeling I got from the heaven scenes w as that only a few hours passed for Dean until Sam joined him. It never even got dark. Not enough time for some detective work on his origins.
I DO really appreciate, however, that the Dean scenes at the end of TW pilot had the SPN blueish-cool look and feeling to them!!
HEY NIKCON7!!!! GREAT to see you back as well!!!!
Yay, the gang is back together to discuss AND we got Tigerlili in the mix!!I
Great START!
PNP
The TRAP is a little too Ghostbusters to me at the moment, although, I appreciate the use of Norse Runes! But I could see potential issues with it already, like: how many fit into it? When you trap another will others trapped escape? Was there something IN the trap already that might escape with the Akriba (was that the name?) will be shoved in?
But I will allows it some time….
